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I would say so, I've never seen worse judder with 24p output than with 60p output. I'd be curious to know what projector he was using that he came to that conclusion. Kind of sounds to me like he had a projector that didn't handle 24p correctly, or maybe a player that didn't output it correctly. And that wasn't super uncommon in 2008 when that article was written.
Exactly. 3:2 judder is far more common to see while watching a movie. This is why displays offer a competent pulldown mode to show the content at a multiple of 24. If 3:2 pulldown showed less motion issues that would be what these displays would use. It's really baffling to me how people are defending the lack of 24p support on these models. I can choose 24p or 60p output to any other projector. I have the option for proper pulldown or 3:2 pulldown on all other projectors, but not the XPR models. You're forced to use just one method.
 

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Exactly. 3:2 judder is far more common to see while watching a movie. This is why displays offer a competent pulldown mode to show the content at a multiple of 24. If 3:2 pulldown showed less motion issues that would be what these displays would use. It's really baffling to me how people are defending the lack of 24p support on these models. I can choose 24p or 60p output to any other projector. I have the option for proper pulldown or 3:2 pulldown on all other projectors, but not the XPR models. You're forced to use just one method.
Things can change with time and firmware. Everyone was dead set that this new XPRs also couldn't do 3D, but now apparently BenQ is providing firmware to enable it. It is very possible that this chipset is very much limited to 50hz/60hz for now, but in the future with different color wheel timing could provide 24p. The documentation for the chipset seems to indicate the chipset is capable of 24p multiples, but that does not mean the firmware for the chipset is capable of doing so currently.
 

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Things can change with time and firmware. Everyone was dead set that this new XPRs also couldn't do 3D, but now apparently BenQ is providing firmware to enable it. It is very possible that this chipset is very much limited to 50hz/60hz for now, but in the future with different color wheel timing could provide 24p. The documentation for the chipset seems to indicate the chipset is capable of 24p multiples, but that does not mean the firmware for the chipset is capable of doing so currently.
It's too little too late. TI has said the specific chipset used in these generation 1 XPR models have to refresh at either 50 or 60hz at 4K/UHD. There is no other way to do it so a firmware update is not possible to retrofit this feature.
 

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It's too little too late. TI has said the specific chipset used in these generation 1 XPR models have to refresh at either 50 or 60hz at 4K/UHD. There is no other way to do it so a firmware update is not possible to retrofit this feature.
Same was said about 3d but it still is apparently happening via firmware.

Anyway, it's just another aspect/feature to consider when weighing what projector to buy.
 

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Same was said about 3d but it still is apparently happening via firmware.

Anyway, it's just another aspect/feature to consider when weighing what projector to buy.
No one from TI said 3D wasn't supported. It just wasn't a feature included at launch. The 24p limitation is a hardware one. It isn't going to happen. This is 100% confirmed by TI themselves. A new control board or revision of it will need to happen for it to be supported.
 

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No one from TI said 3D wasn't supported. It just wasn't a feature included at launch. The 24p limitation is a hardware one. It isn't going to happen. This is 100% confirmed by TI themselves. A new control board or revision of it will need to happen for it to be supported.
Makes me think LCoS and 3LCD will be going 4K or at least higher native eshift soon. Why else would they rush out these products without such basic features? At least they will get a few suckers to buy these units. :(
 

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No one from TI said 3D wasn't supported. It just wasn't a feature included at launch. The 24p limitation is a hardware one. It isn't going to happen. This is 100% confirmed by TI themselves. A new control board or revision of it will need to happen for it to be supported.
Ah. So when you crossposted this to every DLP 4K thread, why did you purposely fail to mention the 100% confirmed programmer's guide that is coming out in August/September - which could potentially allow changes to be made to the stock settings of the DLPC4422 such as 24p?

I read their response and it appears that what you have posted here is incomplete information - and your post I quoted here is in fact not 100% confirmed by TI - as when you brought up this being a hardware limitation TI responded with the possibility of the programmer's guide coming out in the future allowing for change of the default behavior of the chip.
 

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Vivitek Reviews?

Question for you all, I'm looking at a few different projector options and it looks like I can get a Vivitek 2299 at around the same price as an Espon 5040. I haven't been able to find any reviews on the 2299, so has anyone seen one in the wild?

We're in the process of building a house so I've got a few months before I need to pull the trigger on anything but I'm trying to at least narrow down my options.

Thanks in advance.
 

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Question for you all, I'm looking at a few different projector options and it looks like I can get a Vivitek 2299 at around the same price as an Espon 5040. I haven't been able to find any reviews on the 2299, so has anyone seen one in the wild?

We're in the process of building a house so I've got a few months before I need to pull the trigger on anything but I'm trying to at least narrow down my options.

Thanks in advance.
What is your room like?
What size screen
AT or solid screen?
What is viewing distance?
What do you want to use the projector for, as in what will you be watching on the projector?
 

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Question for you all, I'm looking at a few different projector options and it looks like I can get a Vivitek 2299 at around the same price as an Espon 5040. I haven't been able to find any reviews on the 2299, so has anyone seen one in the wild?

We're in the process of building a house so I've got a few months before I need to pull the trigger on anything but I'm trying to at least narrow down my options.

Thanks in advance.
I suggest you read the reviews of the other XPR DLPs (Optoma UHD60/65, Acer, etc), they should be "enlightening".
 

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I suggest you read the reviews of the other XPR DLPs (Optoma UHD60/65, Acer, etc), they should be "enlightening".
That is assuming that you can find a legitimate review like Kraine's or ProjectorReviews.com.

There are at least a half dozen other reviews that proclaim the Optoma XPR DLPs to be the best true 4K projectors under $15k with true 4K resolution, extremely high contrast, amazing black levels, and the best HDR presentation available in their price class.

To make it worse if you go to Optoma's website it basically claims the same thing. Did you know that the UHD65 has 1,200,000:1 contrast, Full BT2020 support, and true 4K UHD resolution? It does according to Optoma. But according to Kraine, calibrated native contrast is really only 1050:1 and dynamic contrast is only 1600:1. The projector can barely hit rec 709 and calibrated brightness on high lamp is only 867 lumens. Does anyone really believe that this projector can deliver the best HDR in it's price class or the best true 4K image under $15k?

I am not trying to dog this projector or Optoma as it is a nice offering for the price. But I can't stand when you read so much hype from reviewers and retailers on the web. It makes trying to sift through the false information to buy a decent projector difficult.
 

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When is the release date for this projector? Will it ever make it to market? Seems like there are multiple threads and even a few video's, but no projector? Looking forward to learning more about it. If you look at the threads there seems to be a lot of disappointed people. The JVC guys are unhappy because the new projectors appear to very incremental at best. The Sony people have the most "new stuff" to look into, but not happy either with what they are hearing from IFA(German version of Cedia) and well, so far, the Epson people have nothing to look forward to, same old 5040ub. LOL

I must admit it is painful to see this snails pace crawl to 4k(or close to 4k) evolution. I currently own a 5030ub and join the crowd in disappointment

So, looking hard at the DLP projectors, but I require 3D for a projector to qualify. This Vivtek so far seems to be the only thing out there that mayyyy have 3d and greatly enhanced sharpness and under 5k. I know the blacks most likely will not be as good, but I like the better sharpness I am seeing with the UHD65. We will have to see if Cedia brings any more news this next week. Waiting with my $'s to see if anything is a big enough leap forward for the under 5k range.
 

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When is the release date for this projector? Will it ever make it to market? Seems like there are multiple threads and even a few video's, but no projector? Looking forward to learning more about it. If you look at the threads there seems to be a lot of disappointed people. The JVC guys are unhappy because the new projectors appear to very incremental at best. The Sony people have the most "new stuff" to look into, but not happy either with what they are hearing from IFA(German version of Cedia) and well, so far, the Epson people have nothing to look forward to, same old 5040ub. LOL

I must admit it is painful to see this snails pace crawl to 4k(or close to 4k) evolution. I currently own a 5030ub and join the crowd in disappointment

So, looking hard at the DLP projectors, but I require 3D for a projector to qualify. This Vivtek so far seems to be the only thing out there that mayyyy have 3d and greatly enhanced sharpness and under 5k. I know the blacks most likely will not be as good, but I like the better sharpness I am seeing with the UHD65. We will have to see if Cedia brings any more news this next week. Waiting with my $'s to see if anything is a big enough leap forward for the under 5k range.
I'm currently in your boat. 5-10k range and it's been really disappointing. Hoping Sony reports are good when people get hands on and get more information out. Epson was a joke. All they needed was 18gbps HDMI. DLP news has been way to slow with new units. The Vivitek has completely flopped based on initial impressions being a virtual no show and delayed. Hopefully CEDIA gets more info out on any that may be showing up. Mean time I'm waiting again on the Sony's to see if there are any hard stops (HDMI being 13.5gbps) and of course see what JVC has improved especially in regards to eshift5.
 

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I'm currently in your boat. 5-10k range and it's been really disappointing. Hoping Sony reports are good when people get hands on and get more information out. Epson was a joke. All they needed was 18gbps HDMI. DLP news has been way to slow with new units. The Vivitek has completely flopped based on initial impressions being a virtual no show and delayed. Hopefully CEDIA gets more info out on any that may be showing up. Mean time I'm waiting again on the Sony's to see if there are any hard stops (HDMI being 13.5gbps) and of course see what JVC has improved especially in regards to eshift5.
I bet Vivitek is waiting for the update that enables 3d from TI. It's been delayed this much might as well wait for that.
 

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I wonder what happend to the review Projectorreviews.com were working on, this is what the wrote on the UHD65 review:

 There’s also their newer, lower cost ($2199) HC4000 that we’re reviewing after the Vivitek HK2299. (Eric is calibrating both at the time I’m publishing this review 7/18/17.)
That was in mid July

This on their review of the Epson HC4000

 There’s also the almost (at this time) shipping Vivitek 2288, but with one in house at this time, the Vivitek comes up short overall compared to the Optoma, so the Vivitek is even less of a competitor.  In fairness, we’ve been working with a pre-production HK2288 projector.
that was end of July.

Vivitek pull it completely, just for the 3D update? It's pretty strange honestly, or is this a normal occurence in the projectorbusiness?
 

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I bet Vivitek is waiting for the update that enables 3d from TI. It's been delayed this much might as well wait for that.
Could be. I believe if they want to make a splash they need to come with something. If the rumors with the Sony's are true (short of their flagship) this leaves a DLP solution back on the table as most don't want sacrifices like 4K HDR banding in the $5,000 up market.

With respectable pricing and FI with 4K in low input lag and color outside rec709 this would be an excellent thing to consider.
 

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Could be. I believe if they want to make a splash they need to come with something. If the rumors with the Sony's are true (short of their flagship) this leaves a DLP solution back on the table as most don't want sacrifices like 4K HDR banding in the $5,000 up market.

With respectable pricing and FI with 4K in low input lag and color outside rec709 this would be an excellent thing to consider.
By end of year dlp 4k shortcomings should be addressed.

August 2017 TI firmware enabled native 24p @ 48hz 2:2

By end of year should have 3D too

More compelling feature set out of box than uhd65 for instance
 
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