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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
Hmm, I'm a bit skeptical due to Matt not exactly stating they fixed this issue. Can anyone here who noted this issue themselves confirm whether the problem has been fixed on their set? Multiple confirmations would be nice.




1. Yeah, this is a weird issue that needs fixing.

2. You forget to mention input lag. This combo is input lag heavy, and I find it doubtful any moderate or hardcore gamer will appreciate all that extra lag over just turning GLL On. Also, Clear Action On, GLL OFF shouldn't be doing much, since Clear Action needs GLL to work properly. That is unless that has changed. What you may be seeing is the fact that the dimmer the TV is, the better motion gets (regardless of Clear Action being on or not). Since Clear Action dims the TV, that darker picture is benefiting motion blur a little. From what I remember of my testing, it was just better to lower contrast (dim the image) manually, since you won't get the Clear Action flicker, but yield the same benefit of less motion blur. (seriously, test the UFO at 100 Contrast, then test again at Contrast 0.). Of course, that skews the whites and turns them grey, but lowered contrast has no effect on blacks.

I won't say you're wrong, but I'm going off my extensive testing here. If this has changed with the update, then cool.

3. I disagree here. Clear Action/GLL On (at least before, when the motion was correct) was still sharper than your RJ/RMB tests. Yes, RJ/RMB combo works at reducing blur to near zero, but in actual real world tests, there was still slight softening of motion detail compared to CA/GLL on which had zero softening. Again, this is with extensive tests, and on the previous firmware, so again, I won't say you're wrong, and the difference between them in motion blur control was only slight. Just going off prior experience. In any case, If indeed Clear Action ON/GLL On is fixed, it's the much better option for gamers, again, due to input lag being much, much better than any combination of RJ/RMB.

4. This is the normal flicker of backlight strobing, that is present on all strobing displays like Sony's Impulse/Clearness, Samsung LED Motion, Vizio Clear Action, BenQ Blur Reduction, Eizo Turbo 240, Nvidia ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur setting), Lightboost, and a variety of others. The backlight flicker is used because it works the best for gaming at eliminating blur, hence why all these companies have some form of it. Yes, the byproduct is flicker. People will either accept that, or deal with excess LCD blur without flicker. I'll take backlight flicker over the blur. Most gamers would, hence why it's been in use for years on monitors, and a growing trend on TVs. The benefits are well documented on sites like TFTCentral and Blurbusters.

It is expected that Philips and Panasonic will actually have a form of Black Frame Insertion for their upcoming OLEDs, which is similar to backlight flickering. VR OLED displays already do this by default for a variety of reasons. OLEDs are still subject to eye tracking motion blur (what all LCDs suffer from) due to sample and hold. No OLED TVs do motion better than plasma/LCD with backlight strobing just yet. They DO have the best GTG response time which eliminates pixel response blur however. That is a different form of blur. Our main problem isn't GTG blur, it's eye tracking motion blur. Not sure why LG didn't bother doing BFI on their OLEDs. it'd boost motion resolution considerably.

5. 100% agreed. Due to 60hz taking in the full benefit of backlight strobing, while 120hz doesn't seem to gain any real benefit (and actually performed worse at motion blur control). Don't know if that has changed any from previous firmware, but I did mention on the first post that 120hz was inferior to 60hz with CA/GLL On. The main benefit of 120hz for right now is that it is still 120 real frames in movement, which is smoother than 60 anything. Not BLUR, but actual frames. A good recommendation for 120hz is capping your in game fps to 40 if you are a PC gamer that can't quite maintain 60fps on certain games. 40fps is considerably less juddery than 30fps, and will judder properly (one image 3 times equally).

Can you confirm that 120hz isn't sporadically changing between good motion and crosstalk? Because that was an issue before, which made 120hz use bad, even without Clear Action.

I'm kind of worn out on dealing with the P's issues, and also want to save some cash, so I'm gonna hold out on the M series to save $500.

Too bad my return period was literally a day or two before the update went live. I'd have kept the TV if the update truly fixed it all. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I certainly need to test all of this for myself. After all, I tend to catch things others miss.
 

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Hmm, I'm a bit skeptical due to Matt not exactly stating they fixed this issue.




1. Yeah, this is a weird issue that needs fixing.

2. You forget to mention input lag. This combo is input lag heavy, and I find it doubtful any moderate gamer will appreciate all that extra lag over just turning GLL On. Also, Clear Action On, GLL OFF shouldn't be doing much, since Clear Action needs GLL to work properly. That is unless that has changed. What you may be seeing is the fact that the dimmer the TV is, the better motion gets (regardless of Clear Action being on or not). Since Clear Action dims the TV, that darker picture is benefiting motion blur a little. From what I remember of my testing, it was just better to lower contrast (dim the image) manually, since you won't get the Clear Action flicker, but yield the same benefit of less motion blur. (seriously, test the UFO at 100 Contrast, then test again at Contrast 0.). Of course, that skews the whites and turns them grey, but lowered contrast has no effect on blacks.

I won't say you're wrong, but I'm going off my extensive testing here. If this has changed with the update, then cool.

3. I disagree here. Clear Action/GLL On (at least before, when the motion was correct) was still sharper than your RJ/RMB tests. Yes, RJ/RMB combo works at reducing blur to near zero, but in actual real world tests, there was still slight softening of motion detail compared to CA/GLL on which had zero softening. Again, this is with extensive tests, and on the previous firmware, so again, I won't say you're wrong, and the difference between them in motion blur control was only slight. Just going off prior experience. In any case, If indeed Clear Action ON/GLL On is fixed, it's the much better option for gamers, again, due to input lag being much, much better than any combination of RJ/RMB.

4. This is the normal flicker of backlight strobing, that is present on all strobing displays like Sony's Impulse/Clearness, Samsung LED Motion, Vizio Clear Action, BenQ Blur Reduction, Eizo Turbo 240, Nvidia ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur setting), Lightboost, and a variety of others. The backlight flicker is used because it works the best for gaming at eliminating blur, hence why all these companies have some form of it.

It is expected that Philips and Panasonic will actually have a form of Black Frame Insertion for their upcoming OLEDs, which is similar to backlight flickering. VR OLED displays already do this by default for a variety of reasons. OLEDs are still subject to eye tracking motion blur (what all LCDs suffer from) due to sample and hold. No OLED TVs do motion better than plasma/LCD with backlight strobing just yet. They DO have the best GTG response time which eliminates pixel response blur however. That is a different form of blur. Our main problem isn't GTG blur, it's eye tracking motion blur. Not sure why LG didn't bother doing BFI on their OLEDs. it'd boost motion resolution considerably.

5. 100% agreed. Due to 60hz taking in the full benefit of backlight strobing, while 120hz doesn't seem to gain any real benefit (and actually performed worse at motion blur control). Don't know if that has changed any from previous firmware, but I did mention on the first post that 120hz was inferior to 60hz with CA/GLL On. The main benefit of 120hz for right now is that it is still 120 real frames in movement, which is smoother than 60 anything. Not BLUR, but actual frames. A good recommendation for 120hz is capping your in game fps to 40 if you are a PC gamer that can't quite maintain 60fps on certain games. 40fps is considerably less juddery than 30fps, and will judder properly (one image 3 times equally).

Can you confirm that 120hz isn't sporadically changing between good motion and crosstalk? Because that was an issue before, which made 120hz use bad, even without Clear Action.

I'm kind of worn out on dealing with the P's issues, and also want to save some cash, so I'm gonna hold out on the M series to save $500.

Too bad my return period was literally a day or two before the update went live. I'd have kept the TV if the update truly fixed it all. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I certainly need to test all of this for myself. After all, I tend to catch things others miss.
"Can you confirm that 120hz isn't sporadically changing between good motion and crosstalk? Because that was an issue before, which made 120hz use bad, even without Clear Action." Confirmed, no double image and or crosstalk. Sat in front of the image for 2 minutes with different resolutions and fps. No issues now..........
 

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Discussion Starter #43 (Edited)
Hmm, dammit. You guys are making me wanna rebuy the TV now. I really don't wanna deal with that hassle again though. Ugh. I'll consider it tomorrow. One more trip to Best Buy to correlate your findings (though I have to do it in the crappy Game Mode default preset which has CA/GLL On enabled by default). If only they would just remove the remote from the locked box....

Ah yes, to add about a 1080p/120hz signal, I believe the reason why Clear Action isn't working on 120hz is because there is no period between frames to insert that black/off frame.

I can actually tell you how to confirm this, which I found myself, but can now put it into words.

When watching 24fps content, 120hz should have silky, consistent judder. Like end credits in a movie scrolling down.

IF you turn on Clear Action/GLL, the credits will judder in the same manner as 3:2 pulldown of 60hz. So effectively, turning on Clear Action/GLL On is akin to reducing the signal to 60hz, but with fantastic motion blur. Since Clear Action is inserting a black frame, between real frames, there is no way to gain the 1:1:1:1:1 pulldown benefit of 120hz for a 24fps signal, 1:1:1:1 for 30fps content, or 1:1 for 60fps content. Hope that makes sense.

(the 1 = image, i.e. 1:1:1:1 means inserting an image 4 times within the 120hz cycle)
 

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Hmm, I'm a bit skeptical due to Matt not exactly stating they fixed this issue. Can anyone here who noted this issue themselves confirm whether the problem has been fixed on their set? Multiple confirmations would be nice.




1. Yeah, this is a weird issue that needs fixing.

2. You forget to mention input lag. This combo is input lag heavy, and I find it doubtful any moderate or hardcore gamer will appreciate all that extra lag over just turning GLL On. Also, Clear Action On, GLL OFF shouldn't be doing much, since Clear Action needs GLL to work properly. That is unless that has changed. What you may be seeing is the fact that the dimmer the TV is, the better motion gets (regardless of Clear Action being on or not). Since Clear Action dims the TV, that darker picture is benefiting motion blur a little. From what I remember of my testing, it was just better to lower contrast (dim the image) manually, since you won't get the Clear Action flicker, but yield the same benefit of less motion blur. (seriously, test the UFO at 100 Contrast, then test again at Contrast 0.). Of course, that skews the whites and turns them grey, but lowered contrast has no effect on blacks.

I won't say you're wrong, but I'm going off my extensive testing here. If this has changed with the update, then cool.

3. I disagree here. Clear Action/GLL On (at least before, when the motion was correct) was still sharper than your RJ/RMB tests. Yes, RJ/RMB combo works at reducing blur to near zero, but in actual real world tests, there was still slight softening of motion detail compared to CA/GLL on which had zero softening. Again, this is with extensive tests, and on the previous firmware, so again, I won't say you're wrong, and the difference between them in motion blur control was only slight. Just going off prior experience. In any case, If indeed Clear Action ON/GLL On is fixed, it's the much better option for gamers, again, due to input lag being much, much better than any combination of RJ/RMB.

4. This is the normal flicker of backlight strobing, that is present on all strobing displays like Sony's Impulse/Clearness, Samsung LED Motion, Vizio Clear Action, BenQ Blur Reduction, Eizo Turbo 240, Nvidia ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur setting), Lightboost, and a variety of others. The backlight flicker is used because it works the best for gaming at eliminating blur, hence why all these companies have some form of it. Yes, the byproduct is flicker. People will either accept that, or deal with excess LCD blur without flicker. I'll take backlight flicker over the blur. Most gamers would, hence why it's been in use for years on monitors, and a growing trend on TVs. The benefits are well documented on sites like TFTCentral and Blurbusters.

It is expected that Philips and Panasonic will actually have a form of Black Frame Insertion for their upcoming OLEDs, which is similar to backlight flickering. VR OLED displays already do this by default for a variety of reasons. OLEDs are still subject to eye tracking motion blur (what all LCDs suffer from) due to sample and hold. No OLED TVs do motion better than plasma/LCD with backlight strobing just yet. They DO have the best GTG response time which eliminates pixel response blur however. That is a different form of blur. Our main problem isn't GTG blur, it's eye tracking motion blur. Not sure why LG didn't bother doing BFI on their OLEDs. it'd boost motion resolution considerably.

5. 100% agreed. Due to 60hz taking in the full benefit of backlight strobing, while 120hz doesn't seem to gain any real benefit (and actually performed worse at motion blur control). Don't know if that has changed any from previous firmware, but I did mention on the first post that 120hz was inferior to 60hz with CA/GLL On. The main benefit of 120hz for right now is that it is still 120 real frames in movement, which is smoother than 60 anything. Not BLUR, but actual frames. A good recommendation for 120hz is capping your in game fps to 40 if you are a PC gamer that can't quite maintain 60fps on certain games. 40fps is considerably less juddery than 30fps, and will judder properly (one image 3 times equally).

Can you confirm that 120hz isn't sporadically changing between good motion and crosstalk? Because that was an issue before, which made 120hz use bad, even without Clear Action.

I'm kind of worn out on dealing with the P's issues, and also want to save some cash, so I'm gonna hold out on the M series to save $500.

Too bad my return period was literally a day or two before the update went live. I'd have kept the TV if the update truly fixed it all. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I certainly need to test all of this for myself. After all, I tend to catch things others miss.
Matt probably doesn’t know every single thing that is changed in each release. I doubt he is the one doing the coding. I think the list he posted just included the major items they fixed.

I know the issue was a HUGE deal for you but it honestly only really applies to a handful of gaming scenarios. Things like the FALD and ARC issues apply to all users of the TV. Those are going to get a lot more exposure within Vizio. It is entirely possible that the issue was fixed without Matt knowing or that it was fixed and he simply forgot about it.

The point is that the specific issue that you returned your TV for is now fixed except for now you don’t have the TV.

I can’t respond to everything you posted right now but I will respond to some of them.

1. Input lag still feels great with Clear Action on and GLL on with HDMI 5. Honestly I have never seen any evidence that Clear Action makes input lag longer. I can’t think of a reason why that would be the case. My stance on this is that Clear Action with GLL does not and never has made input lag any worse. I am not sure why you think it does.

2. Clear Action + interpolation(ie: GLL off) most definitely does produce the cleanest motion with a 60 FPS input. I am not sure why you contest that. That is easy to demonstrate and I will try to do that this weekend. Turning on GLL with clear action has never improved the motion over CA+Interpolation and there is no logical reason why it would do that. Your statement that “Clear Action needs GLL to work properly” isn’t correct. You make way too many assumptions that are incorrect.

3. Yes the 1080p @ 120 does still exhibit some inconsistent behavior. I forgot to mention that before. When you first turn Clear Action on with 1080p @ 120 FPS it appears like it works and it looks great. Then about 1 second later the slight blur appears and stays there. I forgot to mention that before. This is probably another bug that they will have to fix.
 

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Hmm, dammit. You guys are making me wanna rebuy the TV now. I really don't wanna deal with that hassle again though. Ugh. I'll consider it tomorrow. One more trip to Best Buy to correlate your findings (though I have to do it in the crappy Game Mode default preset which has CA/GLL On enabled by default). If only they would just remove the remote from the locked box....

Ah yes, to add about a 1080p/120hz signal, I believe the reason why Clear Action isn't working on 120hz is because there is no period between frames to insert that black/off frame.

I can actually tell you how to confirm this, which I found myself, but can now put it into words.

When watching 24fps content, 120hz should have silky, consistent judder. Like end credits in a movie scrolling down.

IF you turn on Clear Action/GLL, the credits will judder in the same manner as 3:2 pulldown of 60hz. So effectively, turning on Clear Action/GLL On is akin to reducing the signal to 60hz, but with fantastic motion blur. Since Clear Action is inserting a black frame, between real frames, there is no way to gain the 1:1:1:1:1 pulldown benefit of 120hz for a 24fps signal, 1:1:1:1 for 30fps content, or 1:1 for 60fps content. Hope that makes sense.

(the 1 = image, i.e. 1:1:1:1 means inserting an image 4 times within the 120hz cycle)
Don't rebuy the TV, please. You will just find something else wrong with it. It isn't 100% and I seriously don't think you will be satisfied with anything that isn't 100%. You are much better off just waiting a few months for another few firmware updates and for the price to perhaps drop a little.
 

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"Can you confirm that 120hz isn't sporadically changing between good motion and crosstalk? Because that was an issue before, which made 120hz use bad, even without Clear Action." Confirmed, no double image and or crosstalk. Sat in front of the image for 2 minutes with different resolutions and fps. No issues now..........
1080p @ 120 FPS is not functioning properly. It isn't as bad as what we were seeing with clear action + GLL before but it isn't working 100%. The 1080p @ 120 FPS on my M80 worked better from what I remember. It didn't work well at first but firmware updates fixed it for that TV.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Matt probably doesn’t know every single thing that is changed in each release. I doubt he is the one doing the coding. I think the list he posted just included the major items they fixed.

I know the issue was a HUGE deal for you but it honestly only really applies to a handful of gaming scenarios. Things like the FALD and ARC issues apply to all users of the TV. Those are going to get a lot more exposure within Vizio. It is entirely possible that the issue was fixed without Matt knowing or that it was fixed and he simply forgot about it.

The point is that the specific issue that you returned your TV for is now fixed except for now you don’t have the TV.

I can’t respond to everything you posted right now but I will respond to some of them.

1. Input lag still feels great with Clear Action on and GLL on with HDMI 5. Honestly I have never seen any evidence that Clear Action makes input lag longer. I can’t think of a reason why that would be the case. My stance on this is that Clear Action with GLL does not and never has made input lag any worse. I am not sure why you think it does.

2. Clear Action + interpolation(ie: GLL off) most definitely does produce the cleanest motion with a 60 FPS input. I am not sure why you contest that. That is easy to demonstrate and I will try to do that this weekend. Turning on GLL with clear action has never improved the motion over CA+Interpolation and there is no logical reason why it would do that. Your statement that “Clear Action needs GLL to work properly” isn’t correct. You make way too many assumptions that are incorrect.

3. Yes the 1080p @ 120 does still exhibit some inconsistent behavior. I forgot to mention that before. When you first turn Clear Action on with 1080p @ 120 FPS it appears like it works and it looks great. Then about 1 second later the slight blur appears and stays there. I forgot to mention that before. This is probably another bug that they will have to fix.
1: I never disputed Clear Action ON/GLL On on input lag. I was referring to your statement of Clear Action ON/GLL OFF/RJ+RMB On being best or whatever, which I highly disagree with. Also, Clear Action has been confirmed to add about 6ms of input lag. I believe it is in the Rtings Q&A, but I do remember seeing it somewhere. In any case, 6ms is beyond normal human perception (a fraction of a frame), so I wouldn't worry about that whether it's true or wasn't.

2: I can dispute that all I want, because I find that to be absolutely incorrect based on countless hours of PERSONAL testing between them in video games and test images. I find your statement incredibly inaccurate, but hey let's just agree to disagree. You say CA ON:GLL OFF + Interpolation is best, I say you're wrong and CA ON:GLL ON is. That's the end of that debate. We disagree. Let's not beat that horse anymore dead than it is. We will never agree here. I find them both to be stellar at handling motion blur anyways. Regardless of which one you use, motion blur is effectively eliminated. I'm just saying that CA/GLL On is a hint sharper (easy confirmation is a 3rd person action or shooter and look at the ground while the camera rotates. CA:GLL On maintains ground detail that CA ON/GLL Off/Motion Interpolation softens up.

3: Ok, so that hasn't changed then. A shame. This definitely needs fixing to make the 120hz signal as good as it should be.
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
Don't rebuy the TV, please. You will just find something else wrong with it. It isn't 100% and I seriously don't think you will be satisfied with anything that isn't 100%. You are much better off just waiting a few months for another few firmware updates and for the price to perhaps drop a little.
I don't need perfection. All I needed was CA On/GLL On to work. I was perfectly happy with the TV besides that. Please stop making assumptions of me. You don't know me.

I can buy whatever TV I desire. As long as CA/GLL On is fixed, I loved everything else on this TV.

The 1080p/120hz not being perfect doesn't affect me, because I don't have the horsepower to play games at 120fps (aside from a few). Besides, Clear Action/GLL On works at it's best at 60hz. I much rather have perfect motion blur handling at 60fps over having 120fps with inferior motion blur. Motion Blur handling is that important to me.
 

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I don't need perfection. All I needed was CA On/GLL On to work. I was perfectly happy with the TV besides that. Please stop making assumptions of me. You don't know me.

I can buy whatever TV I desire. As long as CA/GLL On is fixed, I loved everything else on this TV.

The 1080p/120hz not being perfect doesn't affect me, because I don't have the horsepower to play games at 120fps (aside from a few). Besides, Clear Action/GLL On works at it's best at 60hz. I much rather have perfect motion blur handling at 60fps over having 120fps with inferior motion blur. Motion Blur handling is that important to me.
Why return it, though? The motion issue is an annoyance, no doubt about it, but with some fiddling it will go away. Why didn't you just grin and bear it until it got fixed?
 

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Discussion Starter #50 (Edited)
Why return it, though? The motion issue is an annoyance, no doubt about it, but with some fiddling it will go away. Why didn't you just grin and bear it until it got fixed?
Believe me, it was last day to return, last minute call.

I was generally fine doing the temp fix every day, but I feel that I shouldn't have to do that with a $2k TV, hence what caused me to cave in and return it.

I couldn't bank on the issue being fixed in a timely manner (certainly not this fast, if it is indeed fixed). Some issues are never fixed on TVs, and so I didn't wanna risk having faulty motion for a long time.

Unlike other issues that I could kind of push aside (like stuff I don't really deal with on a daily basis, like stutters, yellow banding, etc,) this issue was centered around the very reason I bought the TV in the first place: Clear Action/Motion Blur handling. I can understand not being an issue to others who don't use that combination. However, I do, and it is the most important thing to me, so yes, I will take issue with it.

I could live with this trickery on a much cheaper TV, but $2K for a TV I have to mess with every day to get working exactly how I want it is something not so easily overlooked.
 

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Discussion Starter #53 (Edited)
Was the fix not described in the firmware update notes? Assuming Vizio puts out firmware update notes?
No, it wasn't. Matt mentioned fixing something with the backlight during gaming, but not related to this issue in particular.

He then mentioned that he didn't have the time to look at the issue during that time, when someone linked this thread.

Hence why I was skeptical of it being fixed.

I would love to test the update, but even if Best Buy allows me to test, there's no way to know if they have upgraded firmware due to the tablet remote being locked away. I do Best Buy testing with the Game preset due to it being the only one that has Clear Action/GLL enabled.
 

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Has this ever been addressed?
 

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Has this ever been addressed?
Yes and no. The issue the OP mentioned was fixed a long time ago. However, the latest beta firmware does have SOE issues. Those should be fixed when the final firmware is released to the public along with some other great enhancements.

The bottom line is that I get outstanding motion performance with 60p gaming content by using GLL and Clear Action. For games the flickering with Clear Action isn't terrible in my opinion. However, it is bad with full white screens like web pages.

For computer gaming and desktop use I typically select 1080p @ 120 FPS with GLL on. That does very well for me and makes web pages look good as well.

Honestly, nothing is perfect but the P75 I have does extremely well for games on my PS4 and my computer. Once the Beta firmware is finalized I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this display for gaming.
 

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I own a P75 and a D40u currently. My PC is on my D40u and I've noticed if I turn the backlight to 100 I get crosstalk. If I turn it down too about 71 it goes away.

I'm trying to get these screens as close as I can to CRT clarity with fast motion without giving up too much input delay.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
 

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No, it wasn't. Matt mentioned fixing something with the backlight during gaming, but not related to this issue in particular.

He then mentioned that he didn't have the time to look at the issue during that time, when someone linked this thread.

Hence why I was skeptical of it being fixed.

I would love to test the update, but even if Best Buy allows me to test, there's no way to know if they have upgraded firmware due to the tablet remote being locked away. I do Best Buy testing with the Game preset due to it being the only one that has Clear Action/GLL enabled.
What do y'all need to know or test out.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
Yeah the issue was fixed. I did try a D40U and the response time was horrible. Nothing like what rtings said of the D50u. Sluggish pixel response. Even with Clear Action, the response couldn't keep up, and smeared movement. The P65 is much better than when I first noted the issues all those months ago. Even 120hz works like a dream.

For the P65, the issue from the thread has been fixed, for sure. The only thing I've personally noted is that the display response time is definitely slower on a cold start. It gets better the longer the TV is on. Could vary by display. Just personal experience with days of testing recently. All my test images and sites show sluggish black transitions at first, and then fade away considerably the longer the TV is on (though an input change seems to be needed as a trigger). This is most apparent with the Testufo marquee section where the text scrolls by. There is a blatant double images that is almost gone later. This shouldn't be any concern if you encounter this, as all that is needed is for the TV to warm up a bit.

If you want closer to CRT quality, lower the backlight as much as you tolerate. Motion blur is best the darker the TV is due to the nature of PWM.

The only thing that irks me is that Clear Action is disabled with HDR. Considering how I find Clear Action absolutely essential for me, It's a let down. Even though dimming the screen is opposite of what people want with HDR, I could still benefit from the wider color gamut and shadow detail with Clear Action. Ah well.
 

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Yeah the issue was fixed. I did try a D40U and the response time was horrible. Nothing like what rtings said of the D50u. Sluggish pixel response. Even with Clear Action, the response couldn't keep up, and smeared movement. The P65 is much better than when I first noted the issues all those months ago. Even 120hz works like a dream.

For the P65, the issue from the thread has been fixed, for sure. The only thing I've personally noted is that the display response time is definitely slower on a cold start. It gets better the longer the TV is on. Could vary by display. Just personal experience with days of testing recently. All my test images and sites show sluggish black transitions at first, and then fade away considerably the longer the TV is on (though an input change seems to be needed as a trigger). This is most apparent with the Testufo marquee section where the text scrolls by. There is a blatant double images that is almost gone later. This shouldn't be any concern if you encounter this, as all that is needed is for the TV to warm up a bit.

If you want closer to CRT quality, lower the backlight as much as you tolerate. Motion blur is best the darker the TV is due to the nature of PWM.

The only thing that irks me is that Clear Action is disabled with HDR. Considering how I find Clear Action absolutely essential for me, It's a let down. Even though dimming the screen is opposite of what people want with HDR, I could still benefit from the wider color gamut and shadow detail with Clear Action. Ah well.
Problem is I use scanlines for my emulation so it darkens the screen a bit. Ironically during the UFO on the black background there's no ghosting whatsoever...

The D40u running 4K emulation looks really super crisp with sprites and the OSSC.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
The UFO on black background was perfect in the D40U. Its with stuff on non-black backgrounds that the smearing is evident. Like the Marquee test on the testufo site, and playing games. Tomb Raider showed so many double images in movement, it was the worst I've seen on any display. As I moved, the trees were duplicated. It was off putting. This is at 60fps.

The P has a faint after image with certain things, but it's very faint and non problematic, and got better the longer the TV was on. The D40u didn't have that luxury.

That being said, it could very well be panel variation, or a response time problem limited to that particular set. A shame, because 30fps, and movies looked spectacular.
 
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