[nflguy]

I was shopping the at Costco yesterday. I noticed several Vizios had local dimming with either 6, 16, or 30+ active Led zones.

The Samsung tvs had thier own version of local dimming but didn't specify number of zones etc.


Is there a consensus opinion on which is better?

 

[eric3316]

The Vizio's you were looking were most likely their full array models unless they were older stock. They have true zones and leds through the back of the entire TV.

The Sasmungs you were looking at was most likely edge lit and only has LEDs around the edge of the TV and does not actually have true local dimmming and cannot distinguish zones like the Vizio's can.

Full array LEDs do a better job of removing flashlighting and clouding in the panel. The Samsung will probably have better color accuracy but worse screen uniformity.

 

[8mile13]

Basically a FALD (Full Array Local Dimming) has full array and a minimum of 90/100 zones. The Vizio stuff you mention has less LEDs and less zones, it is more or less poor man's FALD. Samsung has Edge Lit Dimming and fakes Full Array Local Dimming (Samsung Micro Dimming Ultimate divides the screen into app. 600 fake zones). It needs to be checked out in the dark to see how well it performs (FALD has better contrast, is better for darkroom performance).
http://www.homefuninc.com/local-dim...s-micro-dimming-pro-vs-micro-dimming-standard

 

[nflguy]

I'm looking for a tv that will not be viewed in a dark room. its for a family/game room with several windows nearby. Is local dimming more effective on tvs viewed in light controlled rooms?

 

[8mile13]

The ''real'' FALDs are high end, expensive, top of the line LCd TVs. Under normal viewing conditions a high end Edge Lit will have a similar performance. Only in the dark the FALD will have a better performance.

 

[Ph8te]

I'm looking for a tv that will not be viewed in a dark room. its for a family/game room with several windows nearby. Is local dimming more effective on tvs viewed in light controlled rooms?

If not viewing in a dark environment then FALD matters less. Local dimming is so sought after here because most do critical viewing at night or in light controlled rooms. If there are always lights on or its a "bright" room then that matters less.


Sent from nowhere

 

[eric3316]

Basically a FALD (Full Array Local Dimming) has full array and a minimum of 90/100 zones. The Vizio stuff you mention has less LEDs and less zones, it is more or less poor man's FALD.

Sorry, there does not have to be 90/100 zones to be considered FALD. FALD is a technolgy that is based on how the LEDs are placed within a panel and not named by how many zones they are assigned. Obviously the more zones the better but that is not to say a TV with lesser zones is no longer considered a FALD TV. It is just considered a less quality FALD TV which won't have the advantages of panels with more zones.

 

[eric3316]

If not viewing in a dark environment then FALD matters less. Local dimming is so sought after here because most do critical viewing at night or in light controlled rooms. If there are always lights on or its a "bright" room then that matters less.


Sent from nowhere

Agree with this. In a bright room the lighting can cover up flashlighting and clouding depending on bad it actually is and also make black's appear darker then they really are.

In a bright room there is no doubt a Samsung edge lit can look better then a Vizio FALD set in a bright room depending on the models we at talking. A Samsung edge lit LED can also look better then a FALD Vizio in a dim room depending on the Vizio model you are looking at.

Samsung's have great color and saturation usually. I also like the clear gloss panels that Samsung uses.

Haven't said all that, I can't stand flashlighting and clouding on a TV so just knowing it is there bothers me but you might feel differently about it.

What models are you comparing?

 

[nflguy]

What about off angle viewing? I need the tv to mounted high on the wall (we have young kids). It will be mounted roughly same height as tvs mounted above a fire place.

So I'm worried about ghosting etc when looking up at tv. Any suggestions?

 

[8mile13]

Sorry, there does not have to be 90/100 zones to be considered FALD. FALD is a technolgy that is based on how the LEDs are placed within a panel and not named by how many zones they are assigned. Obviously the more zones the better but that is not to say a TV with lesser zones is no longer considered a FALD TV. It is just considered a less quality FALD TV which won't have the advantages of panels with more zones.

Well. What i say is that the Vizio's are poor men's FALD. So i am saying that those Vizio's are FALDs. Look, when one says FALD one thinks of high end with lots of LEDs and lots of zones (and even some of those are considered lesser quality). Technically those Vizio's are FALDs but not really AFAIK and i am not the only one who feels that way.

 

[eric3316]

What about off angle viewing? I need the tv to mounted high on the wall (we have young kids). It will be mounted roughly same height as tvs mounted above a fire place.

So I'm worried about ghosting etc when looking up at tv. Any suggestions?

If you mount a TV up high, you want to get a mount that allows you to angle it down.

The off angle viewing to be concerned about with LEDs is from the sides. No LED handles this well IMO but some do better then others depending on the panel that is used.

You usually have to pick better contrast or better side angle viewing, but you can't get both. As long as angling the TV down at viewing at the center then it shouldn't really matter. What matters is where your seating will be located.

 

[eric3316]

Well. What i say is that the Vizio's are poor men's FALD. So i am saying that those Vizio's are FALDs. Look, when one says FALD one thinks of high end with lots of LEDs and lots of zones (and even some of those are considered lesser quality). Technically those Vizio's are FALDs but not really AFAIK and i am not the only one who feels that way.

Well you can think of the Vizio's any way you want and give them any nichname that floats your boat but bottom line is it uses FALD technology and is considered a FALD TV. Not all FALD TVs need to be $5,000 and have 300 zones. That would just be considered a higher tier of the technology.

Only reason why people think that FALD tech needs 100's of zones is because up until now that was all that was available. VIZIO just showed everyone you can release a lower priced, lower spec'd FALD TV with advantages over edge lit technology. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[westa6969]

I read the recent UK Review of the Samsung 65" SUHD and they ran the mouse over test and reported 150 zones. Seen no report on the 78" as they are still pending release.

I've never seen them together to compare but the UK Review gave it it's top Award recently and one of the most positive reviews I've ever seen. However it remains way overpriced at $6K for a 65" so in a battle of the budget buyer it's likely out of reach.

 

[Viper32]

If side viewing is important maybe look at a LG with a IPS Panel.

 

[westa6969]

Well you can think of the Vizio's any way you want and give them any nichname that floats your boat but bottom line is it uses FALD technology and is considered a FALD TV. Not all FALD TVs need to be $5,000 and have 300 zones. That would just be considered a higher tier of the technology.

Only reason why people think that FALD tech needs 100's of zones is because up until now that was all that was available. VIZIO just showed everyone you can release a lower priced, lower spec'd FALD TV with advantages over edge lit technology. Nothing wrong with that.

My problem with the Vizio FALD's is that when demo-ing them in the stores I've yet to see anything presented that equaled or surpassed my current 65F8000 or D8000 Samsungs or the other current Samsung's/Sony X900/950 or OLED's.

I'm awaiting the highly touted R series to perhaps make me reach for my wallet but it remains MIA. Sorry, but if I audition at the store and the result doesn't wow a buyer beyond what they own then it doesn't matter whether it's FALD or not. The Price is an easy choice but if it doesn't impress after seeing it repeatedly then it doesn't matter as I'll never go backwards but perhaps Vizio just does a crappy job presenting their products in-store?

 

[nflguy]

Think of getting this one since I don't want to spend over $1300.

Samsung 65" Class (64.5" Diag.) 1080p Smart LED HDTV UN65H6300AFXZA

 

[eric3316]

My problem with the Vizio FALD's is that when demo-ing them in the stores I've yet to see anything presented that equaled or surpassed my current 65F8000 or D8000 Samsungs or the other current Samsung's/Sony X900/950 or OLED's.

I'm awaiting the highly touted R series to perhaps make me reach for my wallet but it remains MIA. Sorry, but if I audition at the store and the result doesn't wow a buyer beyond what they own then it doesn't matter whether it's FALD or not. The Price is an easy choice but if it doesn't impress after seeing it repeatedly then it doesn't matter as I'll never go backwards but perhaps Vizio just does a crappy job presenting their products in-store?

I think the Samsung F8000 will overall produce a better picture due to it's better colors and also the clear filter they use over the muted/semi reflective P series filter. But the P series does offer deep blacks and great screen uniformity.

You talk about not buying being wowed in a store more then what you currently own, well think about how us plasma owners feel. A lot of us won't buy any of these LEDs whether it be FALD or edge lit. At least you have been able to come to terms with LED whichever the tech they use, a lot of us plasma owners don't having anything to choose from because 99.9% of the LEDs produced are inferior to plasma's except for maybe the Sharp Elite.

I know you are a LED guy, but the way you feel about Vizio FALD TVs is the way many of us feel about LEDs overall.

 

[8mile13]

Well you can think of the Vizio's any way you want and give them any nichname that floats your boat but bottom line is it uses FALD technology and is considered a FALD TV. Not all FALD TVs need to be $5,000 and have 300 zones. That would just be considered a higher tier of the technology.

Only reason why people think that FALD tech needs 100's of zones is because up until now that was all that was available. VIZIO just showed everyone you can release a lower priced, lower spec'd FALD TV with advantages over edge lit technology. Nothing wrong with that.

Well. It floats also C|NETs boat According C|NET those are Direct Local Dimming LED LCd's.
http://www.cnet.com/news/led-local-dimming-explained/

Vizio Direct Local Dimming compared with FALD:
- fewer LEDs
- not as many dimmable zones
- dimming is less precise
- more blooming than full array

 

[eric3316]

Well. It floats also C|NETs boat According C|NET those are Direct Local Dimming LED LCd's.
http://www.cnet.com/news/led-local-dimming-explained/

Vizio Direct Local Dimming compared with FALD:
- fewer LEDs
- not as many dimmable zones
- dimming is less precise
- more blooming than full array

Taken right out of the CNET review of the P Series:

"The good The Vizio P series delivers 4K resolution for significantly less than other major TV brands. Its picture quality, thanks to full-array local dimming, delivers deep black levels (aside from the 55-inch size) and excellent contrast for an LCD TV."

Sure sounds like they consider the P series a FALD TV to me.

 

[eric3316]

Well. It floats also C|NETs boat According C|NET those are Direct Local Dimming LED LCd's.
http://www.cnet.com/news/led-local-dimming-explained/

Vizio Direct Local Dimming compared with FALD:
- fewer LEDs
- not as many dimmable zones
- dimming is less precise
- more blooming than full array

Taken right out of the CNET review of the P Series:

"The good The Vizio P series delivers 4K resolution for significantly less than other major TV brands. Its picture quality, thanks to full-array local dimming, delivers deep black levels (aside from the 55-inch size) and excellent contrast for an LCD TV."

Sure sounds like they consider the P series a FALD TV to me.