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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all...


This weekend, I deployed a new Pioneer SC-1223-K, plugged into my existing 5.1 set of speakers. I also added a pair of speakers in the adjacent kitchen, wired through a volume attenuator .


I set up the Pioneer to have the kitchen speakers be the "B" speakers, and then set it up to output A+B (A=-the 5.1 set, B= the kitchen speakers). When the music got loud, the receiver would shut off. When the TV-program got loud, the receiver would shut off. As soon as I set the receiver to just output to A, the receiver has handled loud content without issue.


I strongly suspect the wiring job I did with the volume attenuator. I simply found the screw-down connectors tricky to get the wires into, and it is possible some stray strands are touching in adjacent locations. It is probably because I have 12 gauge wires and the specs on the volume attenuator says it takes 14 to 16 gauge wires (I ought to point this out to Monoprice.... he he he).

If so, do I clip off a bunch of strands to reduce the gauge?



Other suspicions:
  • Maybe I have the jumper set incorrectly. My speakers are "8 ohm compatible", and the receiver marks it's wattage at 8 ohms. The specifications table says that for 8 ohm speakers, an 8 ohm amplifier and 2 pairs of speakers, the jumper should be at x2. That's where it is. Maybe I've misinterpreted things?
  • The receiver's specifications says "120 Watts per Channel ([email protected]). The volume attenuator is listed as 100W, I find it hard to believe I'm playing things too loud for the volume attenuator, but... maybe?


Thoughts? Theories?


Thanks in advance!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bldxyz  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24463748


Hi all...


This weekend, I deployed a new Pioneer SC-1223-K, plugged into my existing 5.1 set of speakers. I also added a pair of speakers in the adjacent kitchen, wired through a volume attenuator .


I set up the Pioneer to have the kitchen speakers be the "B" speakers, and then set it up to output A+B (A=-the 5.1 set, B= the kitchen speakers). When the music got loud, the receiver would shut off. When the TV-program got loud, the receiver would shut off. As soon as I set the receiver to just output to A, the receiver has handled loud content without issue.


I strongly suspect the wiring job I did with the volume attenuator. I simply found the screw-down connectors tricky to get the wires into, and it is possible some stray strands are touching in adjacent locations. It is probably because I have 12 gauge wires and the specs on the volume attenuator says it takes 14 to 16 gauge wires (I ought to point this out to Monoprice.... he he he).

If so, do I clip off a bunch of strands to reduce the gauge?

Yes - no harm done because the length of cable affected by the clipping is so short.
Quote:
Other suspicions:
  • Maybe I have the jumper set incorrectly. My speakers are "8 ohm compatible", and the receiver marks it's wattage at 8 ohms. The specifications table says that for 8 ohm speakers, an 8 ohm amplifier and 2 pairs of speakers, the jumper should be at x2. That's where it is. Maybe I've misinterpreted things?
  • The receiver's specifications says "120 Watts per Channel ([email protected]). The volume attenuator is listed as 100W, I find it hard to believe I'm playing things too loud for the volume attenuator, but... maybe?


Thoughts? Theories?


Thanks in advance!

One trouble shoots situations like this by removing speaker connectors from the AVR until normal operation resumes.


If you overpower a volume attenuator it will distort if it is transformer -based or overheat if it is resistor-based. You'd have to turn it up quite a bit for either of those things to happen.
 

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The thing to do is strip off some of the strands and then flow solder into the wire ends to bond them together.


You may have simply wired the attenuator wrong and it is acting as a low-resistance load and overloading an amplifier.
 

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Discussion Starter #4

Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24467722


The thing to do is strip off some of the strands and then flow solder into the wire ends to bond them together.


You may have simply wired the attenuator wrong and it is acting as a low-resistance load and overloading an amplifier.

Interesting...


You mean to solder the ends of each wire, then insert them into the connection points, yes? I could give that a try... It would certainly reduce the chance of stray strands shorting things.


I was pretty diligent about labeling the wires. I have to admit that part of it may be that I'm sliding the assembly back into a box, rather than an open wall cavity, and it is certainly a tight fit. The pressure of the box is probably putting some strain on the connections, so I need to re-think how to get the least strain on the connections and the tightest connection, too.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24467722


The thing to do is strip off some of the strands and then flow solder into the wire ends to bond them together.


You may have simply wired the attenuator wrong and it is acting as a low-resistance load and overloading an amplifier.

To add.


If the attenuator is wired wrong the receiver should cut out when only the B output is active.
 

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If your running 2 sets of 8 ohm speakers parallel you've got 4 ohms.This will shut it down when driven at moderate volumes.

 There is a way to change the receiver for 6 ohms which might help.The owners manual will explain the procedure.
 

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Discussion Starter #7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24470056


To add.


If the attenuator is wired wrong the receiver should cut out when only the B output is active.

The receiver only cuts out when A+B is the case, or B alone, but only at high volumes. It does not cut out when A alone is active.
 

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Discussion Starter #8

Quote:
Originally Posted by StereoTech62  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24470585


If your running 2 sets of 8 ohm speakers parallel you've got 4 ohms.This will shut it down when driven at moderate volumes.

 There is a way to change the receiver for 6 ohms which might help.The owners manual will explain the procedure.

I have two (total) speakers going through the volume attenuator, not two sets.


I need to find time to try to re-wire. The other detail I should mention is that the left speaker (which I struggled most with the connection on) gets only the low-end tones -- I can't hear the horn. If I switch the speakers at the wall jack (after the volume attenuator), the left speaker (now producing the right channel) is sounding fine. So I've ruled out the speaker and the cable from the wall jack to the speaker. I just need to work on the wiring at the attenuator! Agh! I need to find the time!
 

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Sorry,I might be reading it wrong but I thought you had a set of 8 ohm on A and another set of 8 ohm on B.When ether A or B was on it worked fine but A+B would shut it down.
 

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Discussion Starter #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by StereoTech62  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24471596


Sorry,I might be reading it wrong but I thought you had a set of 8 ohm on A and another set of 8 ohm on B.When ether A or B was on it worked fine but A+B would shut it down.

I have five 8 ohm speakers on A, and 2 8 ohm speakers on B, but the volume attenuator is only connected to the B speakers. The A speakers have no such interruption.
 

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Correct.However when speaker B is engaged it simply parallels those with the front A left and Right speakers so those 2 amp channels now see 4 ohms.B doesn't get their own pair of amps.

 But your receiver has power zone 2 which means if you are only running 5.1 you can apply the 2 unused channels(since it has 7 channels)to drive another set of satellite speakers in another room.This way each of the 7 speakers have their own dedicated amp where before 2 channels sat idle while the front 2 were loaded down.You will also be able to play a different source at the same time on the Kitchen speakers then what is being played on the main 5 if desired.

 You are on the right track trouble shooting the frequency anomalies with the left and right in the kitchen and the strands of wire touching at the attenuator.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bldxyz  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24471617

Quote:
Originally Posted by StereoTech62  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24471596


Sorry,I might be reading it wrong but I thought you had a set of 8 ohm on A and another set of 8 ohm on B.When ether A or B was on it worked fine but A+B would shut it down.

I have five 8 ohm speakers on A, and 2 8 ohm speakers on B, but the volume attenuator is only connected to the B speakers. The A speakers have no such interruption.

Are the 5 speakers on A attached to 5 different channels, as in a conventional 5.0 or 5.1 systems?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StereoTech62  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24471694


Correct.However when speaker B is engaged it simply parallels those with the front A left and Right speakers so those 2 amp channels now see 4 ohms.B doesn't get their own pair of amps.

Maybe. Any good speaker switch/attenuator includes some kind of matching facility to help keep from loading down the amplifier.

Quote:
 But your receiver has power zone 2 which means if you are only running 5.1 you can apply the 2 unused channels(since it has 7 channels)to drive another set of satellite speakers in another room.This way each of the 7 speakers have their own dedicated amp where before 2 channels sat idle while the front 2 were loaded down.

Agreed - that is the way to do it. Then there is no need for a separate attenuator at all.
Quote:
You will also be able to play a different source at the same time on the Kitchen speakers then what is being played on the main 5 if desired.

Agreed, yet another dividend for doing things the right way. Some AVRs have limits on what sources can be routed this way, but the Pionner SC 1223 seems to provide a fuller set of functions.


The most convenient way to control the secondary set of speakers might be via the Android app which could be connected via WiFi. The Android device could either be a smart phone or a low cost notepad with the iControlAV2013 installed.
Quote:
 You are on the right track trouble shooting the frequency anomalies with the left and right in the kitchen and the strands of wire touching at the attenuator.

Agreed.


Ironically and as you have pointed out, there may be no need for the attenuator. The secondary speakers could be connected directly to the AVR and be controlled by either the AVR or a wireless remote controller.
 

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Discussion Starter #14

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24471908


Are the 5 speakers on A attached to 5 different channels, as in a conventional 5.0 or 5.1 systems?

All 7 speakers are attached to separate channels. The A speakers are attached to L/R Front, Center and L/R Surround, while the B speakers are attached to L/R "B"/Front Height.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24471933


The most convenient way to control the secondary set of speakers might be via the Android app which could be connected via WiFi. The Android device could either be a smart phone or a low cost notepad with the iControlAV2013 installed.

Agreed.


Ironically and as you have pointed out, there may be no need for the attenuator. The secondary speakers could be connected directly to the AVR and be controlled by either the AVR or a wireless remote controller.

Perhaps I should clarify the reason I put the volume attenuator in place:

I wanted an easy, fast way to reduce the volume in the kitchen.



Imagine that it is Friday night and we are having a nice quiet dinner in the kitchen, so we've turned on the kitchen speakers (A+B) and are listening to some nice, dinnertime music. Then, it is the next day and my son gets up late the next morning and starts to play Death From Above XIX on our Playstation 14* while my wife is washing dishes from the breakfast he missed. I want my wife to be able to simply reach up to the slider I've installed and cut the volume in the kitchen, rather than have to do something on the receiver or on the App**

*Imagining the future: my son isn't playing videogames yet thankfully

**The iControl App tells me it cannot control the receiver, though I haven't tried to troubleshoot that yet, nor do I want to be fumbling for my phone to turn down the volume.


Further, I cannot determine how to differentially control the volume of the B speakers from the receiver anyway! I even asked Pioneer, and they said "The B speakers volume adjusts along with the speakers A volume." (Not the most helpful response, actually).


Anyway, I do that the volume attenuator in place, and I just need to find the time to re-wire it. Maybe no sooner than Friday, actually.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Okay, so re-wiring the connections to the volume attenuator did it!


I removed the wires, cut a short length off, stripped a bit of the cover, folded back about 1/3 of the wires, trimmed them, inserted the remaining part into the connector space, re-tightened, and … it worked. I did a loud volume test and the receiver didn't shut down. I've been listening with A+B most of the evening, no issues.


I think the left speaker having only partial sound should have been a bigger clue.


In any case, I'm still curious about those who said I could do without the volume attenuator. How would I do that, then?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bldxyz  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24476126


Okay, so re-wiring the connections to the volume attenuator did it!


I removed the wires, cut a short length off, stripped a bit of the cover, folded back about 1/3 of the wires, trimmed them, inserted the remaining part into the connector space, re-tightened, and … it worked. I did a loud volume test and the receiver didn't shut down. I've been listening with A+B most of the evening, no issues.


I think the left speaker having only partial sound should have been a bigger clue.


In any case, I'm still curious about those who said I could do without the volume attenuator. How would I do that, then?

I was thinking that you would put the extra pair of speakers on Zone 2 and control Zone 2 with a smartphone or Android tablet.
 

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Discussion Starter #17

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24476329


I was thinking that you would put the extra pair of speakers on Zone 2 and control Zone 2 with a smartphone or Android tablet.

Hm... I should try that out. Do you happen to know if the EQ can be set differently between the two zones? I'm getting too much bass due to the molding atop the cabinets. It's good that these little speakers are delivering some bass, but it is too much.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bldxyz  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24498791

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24476329


I was thinking that you would put the extra pair of speakers on Zone 2 and control Zone 2 with a smartphone or Android tablet.

Hm... I should try that out. Do you happen to know if the EQ can be set differently between the two zones? I'm getting too much bass due to the molding atop the cabinets. It's good that these little speakers are delivering some bass, but it is too much.

I don't happen to know anything - I intentionally find it out by reading user manuals and other publicly available online documentation. ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #19

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24498998


I don't happen to know anything - I intentionally find it out by reading user manuals and other publicly available online documentation. ;-)

LOL.


Okay, allow me to rephrase my question, then?


Do you know if the EQ can be set differently between the two zones?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bldxyz  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24499050

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1521887/volume-attenuation-receiver-shutting-down#post_24498998


I don't happen to know anything - I intentionally find it out by reading user manuals and other publicly available online documentation. ;-)

LOL.


Okay, allow me to rephrase my question, then?


Do you know if the EQ can be set differently between the two zones?

What does the user manual say?


I haven't checked that angle out.
 
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