they arent on mpeg4 yet.... the new encoders "support" mpeg4 but theyre still not in mpeg4 and wont be until you get a pcmcia card in the mail for your receiver to upgrade it to mpeg4.
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Voom's new HD encoders - Anyone see a difference?
The title says it all. I for one don't see any change in the typically excellent PQ on Voom. Since this is the first service to switch to MPEG4, we've got an excellent opportunity to examine it's benefits & deficiencies.
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Switching from MPEG2 to MPEG4 would require a different decoder chip in the receiver itself. This is the problem that Dishnetwork will face as they would have to provide new receivers because of the hardware differences. Either Voom's receivers was always MPEG4 from day one or perhaps there's some misunderstanding concerning this changeover.
If you truly are decoding in MPEG4 then the picture quality should remain the same. What might be better is less pixelation occurrences during high motion scenes. The biggest benefit that MPEG4 would provide is more efficient compression thus more channels within the same bandwidth. It really more of an advantage in the sales department for providers than better picture for you.
If you truly are decoding in MPEG4 then the picture quality should remain the same. What might be better is less pixelation occurrences during high motion scenes. The biggest benefit that MPEG4 would provide is more efficient compression thus more channels within the same bandwidth. It really more of an advantage in the sales department for providers than better picture for you.
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Ah, thanks Jaguar, I wasn't aware of that. I thought all the necessary hardware was already integrated into the receiver. I'd be surprised if we see anything in the mail until Voom is on a firmer footing.
Jergenf, the receiver is compatible with MPEG4, but, as Jaguar stated, I guess it only needs the card to make it fully compatible.
| Originally posted by jagouar they arent on mpeg4 yet.... the new encoders "support" mpeg4 but theyre still not in mpeg4 and wont be until you get a pcmcia card in the mail for your receiver to upgrade it to mpeg4. |
Jergenf, the receiver is compatible with MPEG4, but, as Jaguar stated, I guess it only needs the card to make it fully compatible.
I doubt these current VoOM receivers (Motorola) are capable of decoding MPEG-4 - with or without a firmware upgrade. Like Dish Network, DirecTV will also be swapping out receivers as they intro MPEG-4 and Ka band operation later this year. Since DirecTV is touting 1,500 more HD channels (locals as well as additional national channels) I suspect the more efficient compression algorithms will be used to offset bandwidth limitations, even with two additional satellites, not materially improving PQ above current levels. For now, these new technologies are more a matter of "running in place" merely to keep up with the increased programming demand challenges from cable.
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The Voom moto is upgradable to Mpeg4.
| Originally posted by Ray H I doubt these current VoOM receivers (Motorola) are capable of decoding MPEG-4. Like Dish Network, DirecTV will also be swapping out receivers as they intro MPEG-4 and Ka band operation later this year. Since DirecTV is touting 1,500 more HD channels (locals as well as additional national channels) I suspect the more efficient compressioon algorithms will be used to offset the bandwidth loss, even with two additional satellites, not improving PQ noticeably over current levels. For now, these new technologies are more a matter of "running in place" merely to keep up with the increased programming demand challenges from cable. |
vurbano is right... they have been since the beginning upgradable to mpeg4 via a pcmcica card in the side of the box.
Just because DirecTV/Dish Network didnt plan for the future doesnt mean voom had to as well...
Just because DirecTV/Dish Network didnt plan for the future doesnt mean voom had to as well...
From satguys FAQ on the voom moto:
Does VOOM STB support MPEG-2, MPEG-4 or WMV9 encoding?
Currently only MPEG-2 encoding is supported, though an upgrade to MPEG-4 (more precisely MPEG-4.10, aka AVC, aka H.264) and WMV9 (aka VC-9) is expected in 2005.
Is VOOM STB upgradeable?
Yes. Software updates are done automatically via satellite. The STB also has an expansion slot for MPEG4/WMV9 card. Additionally, the OTA tuner module can be easily replaced if this becomes necessary.
Does VOOM STB support MPEG-2, MPEG-4 or WMV9 encoding?
Currently only MPEG-2 encoding is supported, though an upgrade to MPEG-4 (more precisely MPEG-4.10, aka AVC, aka H.264) and WMV9 (aka VC-9) is expected in 2005.
Is VOOM STB upgradeable?
Yes. Software updates are done automatically via satellite. The STB also has an expansion slot for MPEG4/WMV9 card. Additionally, the OTA tuner module can be easily replaced if this becomes necessary.
OK so what was the upgrade they did last night for?
why would they bother with mpeg4 upgrade if they are closing by the end of march .. hmmmmm
On that note, I guess VoOM didin't quite plan for the future as much as some say . . .
Well, they did in the sense that they had an upgrade slot incorporated into the STB. At the point in time when Voom came out, MPEG4 wasn't quite ready for prime time for satellite broadcast. MPEG4 decoders may not have been available at the price and quantity they needed at that point in time. The upgrade slots enable them to shift to MPEG4 without replacing the entire box... just adding an outboard decoder.
Though I have to wonder how much that actually saves. My experience, at least at end-user pricing levels, is that it's often more cost effective to just replace the entire thing, than to build-in the capability of upgrading hardware, then adding the hardware upgrade later. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the value of the upgrade slot was in marketing... it makes them appear more forward-thinking to be able to say the boxes are upgradable to MPEG4. Look at how many people continue to think the boxes are MPEG4 capable, despite the fact that it's been known from day 1 that they are mearly MPEG4 upgradable.
Though I have to wonder how much that actually saves. My experience, at least at end-user pricing levels, is that it's often more cost effective to just replace the entire thing, than to build-in the capability of upgrading hardware, then adding the hardware upgrade later. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the value of the upgrade slot was in marketing... it makes them appear more forward-thinking to be able to say the boxes are upgradable to MPEG4. Look at how many people continue to think the boxes are MPEG4 capable, despite the fact that it's been known from day 1 that they are mearly MPEG4 upgradable.
They have migrated ALL channels to use "state-of-the-art" Harmonic encoders. Two reasons for that:
1) Short-term: the Harmonic encoder uses some of the most advanced MPEG-2 encoding features which (if used correctly) result in better compression, without any PQ degradation. The STB doesn't require any upgrade to support this change.
2) Long-Term: the Harmonic encoder is software-upgradable to MPEG-4. The STB needs the MPEG4 decoder card to support this change.
1) Short-term: the Harmonic encoder uses some of the most advanced MPEG-2 encoding features which (if used correctly) result in better compression, without any PQ degradation. The STB doesn't require any upgrade to support this change.
2) Long-Term: the Harmonic encoder is software-upgradable to MPEG-4. The STB needs the MPEG4 decoder card to support this change.
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It was the present they didn't plan for!
| Originally posted by Ray H On that note, I guess VoOM didin't quite plan for the future as much as some say . . . |
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I suggest you catch-up with the latest developments at this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=515000
Botton line: The shutdown has been postponed to allow more time for the VOOM HD LLC transition.
Also, I suggest that if you have any more "intelligent" comments regarding VOOM's future, post on that thread.
Let's stay on topic here.
| Originally posted by letMeIn why would they bother with mpeg4 upgrade if they are closing by the end of march .. hmmmmm |
| Originally posted by Ray H On that note, I guess VoOM didin't quite plan for the future as much as some say . . . |
| Originally posted by Newbie It was the present they didn't plan for! |
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=515000
Botton line: The shutdown has been postponed to allow more time for the VOOM HD LLC transition.
Also, I suggest that if you have any more "intelligent" comments regarding VOOM's future
, post on that thread.Let's stay on topic here.
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they completed the encoder upgrades on the ground. The new encoders are software mpeg4 upgradeable
| Originally posted by patrickpiteo OK so what was the upgrade they did last night for? |
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Will we get more channels out of this sooner?
| Originally posted by vurbano they completed the encoder upgrades on the ground. The new encoders are software mpeg4 upgradeable |
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Spoilsport. How much fun would it have been to listen to people talking
about the picture qualities of their imaginary mpeg-4 decoders ?
I say we start a thread about all HDTV pictures actually being artifically colorized
in the receiver, to save the bandwidth of color transmission, and see if people can
find faults in that, as well.
| Originally posted by jagouar they arent on mpeg4 yet.... the new encoders "support" mpeg4 but theyre still not in mpeg4 and wont be until you get a pcmcia card in the mail for your receiver to upgrade it to mpeg4. |
about the picture qualities of their imaginary mpeg-4 decoders ?
I say we start a thread about all HDTV pictures actually being artifically colorized
in the receiver, to save the bandwidth of color transmission, and see if people can
find faults in that, as well.
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I dont see how under mpeg2 unless they move to AMC6
| Originally posted by patrickpiteo Will we get more channels out of this sooner? |
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Actually, with the migration to Harmonic (even using MPEG2) there is some additional capacity available. So VOOM must have such capacity now. The reason is because the Harmonic encoders use some of the most advanced MPEG2 features that the old encoders didn't use.
How much more capacity? I don't think it's a lot, but nobody can't tell for sure. Especially, because we don't know how crappy the old encoders were.
One thing for sure: since the migration is completed, they don't need the 3 HD test channels that they're running, so at least that much capacity is now available.
| Originally posted by vurbano I dont see how under mpeg2 unless they move to AMC6 |
How much more capacity? I don't think it's a lot, but nobody can't tell for sure. Especially, because we don't know how crappy the old encoders were.
One thing for sure: since the migration is completed, they don't need the 3 HD test channels that they're running, so at least that much capacity is now available.
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