[tbrar]

As title suggests I am experiencing issues with my Marantz VP12-S3 when used with my HTPC via DVI (I have not tried it via VGA). This is *only* with the HTPC, *not* with my standalone DVD player the Pioneer 59AVi which produces an astounding image via its HDMI output into the DVI-D input of the S3 - phonemonial PQ .


The problem with the HTPC can only be described as significant banding and solarisation on colour fades. Its as if the colour bit depth has been reduced substantially from what it should be. An example is I counted 72 vertical bands on the DVE greyscale pattern (Chapter 12), where the pattern should be a smooth transition from black to white .


The configuration of the HTPC is a Radeon 9600 Graphics Card using Theatertek for playback (also Power DVD which I tried), however banding/solarisation is also present on test patterns derived from 'Display Mate' or even via the Windows Desktop. I have not experienced this problem with other digital displays using the same source.


As said this is only with the HTPC, not my other primary digital video source the Pioneer 59AVi (where the image produced by S3 from both component and DVI is fantastic), however I am keen to get it resolved and wondered if any one else had experienced any such issues, indeed had any recommendations/ideas for a resolution .

 

[Cain]

I'm hearing lots of solarization/posterization issues with the S3.


The Seleco HT300Link also had these problems when it first shipped, I'm going to guess the HD2+ chip is more sensitive to this??


If Marantz is aware of these issues I feel certain they will get it fixed.


-- Cain

 

[thirdkind]

What color depth is your video card set to? I noticed tons of banding at a 16-bit color depth with my Radeon 7500 but bumping it up to 24-bit smoothed things out considerably.

 

[tbain]

Tbrar,


I can't help you on the banding issue, but I'm curious of the comparison between the HTPC and the 59avi picture quality (assuming you get the banding issue solved)? I currently considering upgrading to either a DVI-capable player (looking hard at the 59avi) or an HTPC, and I get the sense you actually prefer the pq of the Pioneer over teh HTPC?


-Tbain

 

[tbrar]

TBain, Your right in that I do pefer the PQ of the DVD player, however this is due to the HTPC producing banding and posterisation (when used with the S3).


Its really quite apparent on colour fades which should be a smooth blend from one shade to another - without any gradients, such as a blue sky that ranges from a dark blue to a lighter blue - or a halo around a light, the result from the HTPC is blocks of dinstinctly different shades with visable gradients.


The 59AVi does not exibit any such issues with the S3, so it produces a better picture. However, I would like to get the issue resolved so as to do a fair comparision between the two sources and also to protect my investment in the HTPC, which I bought as an all digital source/video processor prior to the latest batch of stand alone DVI/HDMI enabled DVD players being available.

Thirdkind, the colour depth is set to 'True Colour' (32 Bit).

 

[clehner]

Quote:

Originally posted by tbrar TBain, The 59AVi does not exibit any such issues with the S3,

What resolution does the Pio produce, 480p? I take it that you have your HTPC set to 1280x720.... it might be a resolution/bandwidth problem of the DVI receiver of the S3.


Regards

Christoph

 

[tbrar]

Via the Pioneers HDMI output you can set the resolution according to preferences and display type, i.e 480p/576p/720p/1080i, I have it set to 720p - 1280x720, though have tested the other resolutions as well with no issues.

 

[fulabeer]

I'm having the same problem with my HTPC-DVI as well.

I see zero banding via any other source except the PC via DVI.

If i use the same PC via normal analogue VGA there is no banding etc.


As tbar points out, it doesn't seem to be a DVI input issue on the S3, as he's AV59i DVD player via DVI is fine.


This may be a driver/VGA card issue etc.

It bands in normal windows pages as well.


I'm using a Radeon 9600 pro with the latest drivers.

Win XP pro "updated"

TheaterTek "fully patched"


I couldn't get [email protected] at first, as the latest Radeon drivers don't include the resolution as default etc. I had to use powerstrip to get windows to except it first. So i am wonder if this is a timing/bit depth sort of problem.

I did have a similar problem with my TFT monitor banding, before i updated the video driver.


What VGA cards is everybody else using?

 

[Dan Miller]

It's interesting that you are both using the same video card. I used a HTPC (although it was actually the MyHD driver and output) with a FX5900 Ultra card at CEDIA and CES and have switched the card (thanks to my fooling around and destroying that $500 card) to a Radeon 9700 Pro. Even though I was using the MyHD output, I have done extensive testing of all sorts of windows signals as well, DisplayMate, Colorfacts, Nokia Monitor Test, WMV9-HD... All look right. I can't for the life of me figure out what's up.


Dan

 

[adidadi]

I'm wondering if this is the same "banding" issue I'm having with the DTC 100 on VGA. Unusable it is.

 

[John Schuermann]

Interesting - the reason I love my HTPC is that it just about eliminated the banding I was getting from my old Sony DVD player through component!


I have no ideas other that what others have suggested. I have a Radeon 7500 All in Wonder with Theatertek as my DVD app.


Good Luck!


JOHN

 

[fulabeer]

Just found out this IS a driver issue on the Radeon 9600 card.

The problem with banding may due to the 9600 not seeing any DVI connected display.

Since it cannot see the display device, it doesn't know what it can resolve etc.

I also found that any other resolution than the Powerstrip custom [email protected], resulted in a black "No signal" screen.

Looking in display setting "displays" shows the Radeon has no idea what DVI display is connected.

The black screen(no signal) in normal Windows "default" resolutions, only happens if the display is connected via DVI. With nothing connected to tha analogue VGA socket etc.

The 9600 just assumes no display is attached and shuts of the video!


Forum member MAX, over in the HTPC forum directed me to www.rage3d.com (thanks MAX)

There is a active thread of numerous 9600 owners, having the exact same display (or lack of it!) problems.


Apparently, Catalyst drivers 3.2 to 3.7 are fine. 3.8 to 4.1 (current) have this DVI bug.


I intend to try Catalyst 3.7 in the Morning, and will report my findings.

I hope this might also sort out the banding issue, as the display should be fully recognised via DVI then etc.

Maybe being able to select 24bit will smooth out the banding, ie R=8 + G=8 + B=8 =24bit.

 

[tbain]

Fulabeer,


Glad you found the source of the problem. I've heard others complaining about the driver issue on the 9600, and how they can't get DVI to work without also having the VGA connected. I am still very interested in your comparision of the DVI picture quality between the HTPC and the Pioneer 59Avi!!


TBain

 

[Gideon]

Novice question.

Wondering how does banding looks like and what should be considered as no banding? any pictures to show?

Regards.

 

[tbrar]

The issue with banding (posterisation etc) and a HTPC would appear to be Radeon related. Phil Hale of UVEM ( www.uvem.co.uk ) who built my HTPC came around today armed with alternative cards and equally importantly the expertise needed (which I lack) to trouble shoot the issue that a number of us have been experiencing.


First thing Phil tried was to upgrade the Catalyst drivers from 3.7 to the latest 4.2. This did not resolve the issues (which are described very well here ).


The next thing that Phil tried was to change the Video Card, from my current Radeon 9600 to a new Radeon 9600XT card. Again, this did not resolve the issue.


Final test was to change from a Radeon to a Matrox G550 which Phil also had. Loaded latest Matrox drivers, booted up and guess what *NO BANDING*, perfect gradiations with the desktop set at 32Bit True Colour (also it appears that 1280x720 is available from desktop settings - without the need for Power Strip, though you can still use Power Strip with the Matrox it seems). Also DVD playback via TT results in perfect gradiations and no obvious reduced colour bit depth issues that I was having with the Radeon.


There is an issue in that the amount of control available from the Matrox control panel is limited when compared to that of the Radeon, however at least the banding issue is resolvable by using a Matrox card. Phil, who's support is always first class, is now looking into ways in which this level of control can be acheived with a Matrox - or indeed Nvdia card. The key thing is the issue appears to be related to Radeon (only 9600 ???) and the S3.


Its a very good start and I now have 1280x720 via DVI into my S3 from my HTPC, with a lot of viewing/comparisons to be done vs the Pioneer 868AVi that I also have ...........