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Discussion Starter #1
So I scored a 55" VT60 it probably has around 250 hours on it and I was originally concerned the blacks were not as good as my ST50 but they are better its just the black surround vs the gunmetal on the ST50 making it look that way but the dithering omg the dithering is about 1000x worse than on my ST50, unwatchable in dark scenes.


When I originally got my ST50 I noticed the dithering but it eventually went away and I forgot about it until I checked and my eyes had to be about a foot away from the TV to see it. Now with my VT60 its awful ongoing all the time except in full daylight scenes. Is there anything I can do? Is this a common VT60 issue?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT  /t/1523981/vt60-from-a-st50-holy-friken-dithering-dither-ditheryness#post_24520787


So I scored a 55" VT60 it probably has around 250 hours on it and I was originally concerned the blacks were not as good as my ST50 but they are better its just the black surround vs the gunmetal on the ST50 making it look that way but the dithering omg the dithering is about 1000x worse than on my ST50, unwatchable in dark scenes.


When I originally got my ST50 I noticed the dithering but it eventually went away and I forgot about it until I checked and my eyes had to be about a foot away from the TV to see it. Now with my VT60 its awful ongoing all the time except in full daylight scenes. Is there anything I can do? Is this a common VT60 issue?

Do you think its the source? Perhaps the VT60 is better at displaying the source material more clearly. I sometimes notice dithering on my ST50 but it is always the source and differs from channel to channel. HBO via fios is always crystal clear as are bluray movies. FNC is not as clear as CNN etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Pretty sure, it even does it on blurays and only in certain colors and dim areas, and I can see the little pixles flashing green pink and blue. I'm sitting 6-8 feet away, I didn't think going from a 50" to a 55 would be that big of difference.


Red Dawn was afull there were times only the people faces weren't dithering like crazy.
 

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What type of settings are you using? I don't know notice any dithering when viewing actual material. Only if I run like a grey slide I can see dithering when I am up close and this is on a 65" model.


At the extreme level you are seeing it, it is obviously not normal or all of us VT60 owners would be complaining about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316  /t/1523981/vt60-from-a-st50-holy-friken-dithering-dither-ditheryness#post_24524983


What type of settings are you using? I don't know notice any dithering when viewing actual material. Only if I run like a grey slide I can see dithering when I am up close and this is on a 65" model.


At the extreme level you are seeing it, it is obviously not normal or all of us VT60 owners would be complaining about it.
I searched all over to avoid a display model with burn in and now this......


contrast 94

brighness+2

color 50

tint 0

sharpness 0

color temp normal

vivd color off

cats off

I was playing around with video NR but it didnt really help except on high and not by much I think its just a crossing over of what its mean for changing it alittle

everything else off


pro settings pannel brightness high

agc-0

black ex off (turning these off really improved the stock picture)

color gamut rec. 709 (native is a little cooler otherwise they all look the same)

w/b detail adj i have the high red -1 but thats all ive messed with

color detail adj i havent messed with

gamas at 2.2

advance picture i have 1080 direct off

hdmi content on auto

hdmi/dvi all on standard

blacklevel light


screen settings

overscan off

h size 1

display on

pixel orbiter on auto (didnt make a difference from off, i thought it would....)


runnning the screen wipe i don't notice it as no do i in absolute black like black barrs


playing video games is usually ok because there bright and idk dont trigger it unless in a dark area but watching the Disney Rescuers 35 anniversary was god awful (as with camp fire scenes and red dawn) but then the rescuers down under which has a much brighter pallet want bad. Again its really bad when its bad like when you shut ur every really tight and put pressure on ur eyes if u have to and u see like black with shimmery colors and crap, it looks like that on my tv.


I wish I could take a video but I dout it would turn out. I have 205 hours on the TV right now
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT  /t/1523981/vt60-from-a-st50-holy-friken-dithering-dither-ditheryness#post_24525118


I searched all over to avoid a display model with burn in and now this......


contrast 94

brighness+2

color 50

tint 0

sharpness 0

color temp normal

vivd color off

cats off

I was playing around with video NR but it didnt really help except on high and not by much I think its just a crossing over of what its mean for changing it alittle

everything else off


pro settings pannel brightness high

agc-0

black ex off (turning these off really improved the stock picture)

color gamut rec. 709 (native is a little cooler otherwise they all look the same)

w/b detail adj i have the high red -1 but thats all ive messed with

color detail adj i havent messed with

gamas at 2.2

advance picture i have 1080 direct off

hdmi content on auto

hdmi/dvi all on standard

blacklevel light


screen settings

overscan off

h size 1

display on

pixel orbiter on auto (didnt make a difference from off, i thought it would....)


runnning the screen wipe i don't notice it as no do i in absolute black like black barrs


playing video games is usually ok because there bright and idk dont trigger it unless in a dark area but watching the Disney Rescuers 35 anniversary was god awful (as with camp fire scenes and red dawn) but then the rescuers down under which has a much brighter pallet want bad. Again its really bad when its bad like when you shut ur every really tight and put pressure on ur eyes if u have to and u see like black with shimmery colors and crap, it looks like that on my tv.


I wish I could take a video but I dout it would turn out. I have 205 hours on the TV right now
First thing you need to do is change your panel brightness to mid. The only time it should be set to high is if you own a meter and know the technique of how to calibrate in high brightness found by a pro calibrator Chad B.


You might also want to lower your contrast as well.


That alone should improve your picture quite a bit and the dithering you are seeing.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I was wondering if the refresh rate was off or something in the sub-field drive was off making the sub-fields flash slower so there more visible?


I got a pretty good video of it im going to upload and like to youtube or something
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I've tried it on mid as thats where a couple of calibration reports have it and I think it looks like trash? Once I took off the AGC and black extension, moved the gamma to 2.2 and put the panel brightness on high it looked like my ST50, which I don't think has a panel brightness adjustment does it?


Idk I'm messing with it right now and on Mid you get better shadow detail but it looks all washed out and pastel colored on high everything pops more?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT  /t/1523981/vt60-from-a-st50-holy-friken-dithering-dither-ditheryness#post_24525172


I've tried it on mid as thats where a couple of calibration reports have it and I think it looks like trash? Once I took off the AGC and black extension, moved the gamma to 2.2 and put the panel brightness on high it looked like my ST50, which I don't think has a panel brightness adjustment does it?


Idk I'm messing with it right now and on Mid you get better shadow detail but it looks all washed out and pastel colored on high everything pops more?
Your panel on high without the proper calibration could not look any worse. Every listed setting you find will have panel brightness on mid. Also, change your gamma to 2.4


Try THX cinema mode and see how it looks. Just from your posted settings tells us it is but your TV but your settings.


Look in my profile for threads I started and look at the thread with the title plasma help guide. In the first post I have a link to different VT60 settings. Try those and see if you like any of them.


Also, THX bright mode will give you more brightness if that is what you are looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have it on THX bright room, i did bump the color temp up to normal, and its still doing it. And isn't 2.2 like the target gamma? I know you would need an actual calibrater to know the actual gamma of the display.
 

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I think the 2013 sets may be a little noisier because there is a slight amount of non-defeatable artificial sharpening added to the image that the 2012 sets didn't have.
 

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THX Cinema is probably 6-bit per color, use Custom mode with IFC on Min/Mid if you want full color and motion resolution


Raising contrast might make dither more obvious from a greater distance but the reality is there is less dither as more subfield combinations are used


Load this image onto the VT60 and see what picture settings improve the situation, green is harder to smooth out but concentrate on what improves the picture as a whole

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT  /t/1523981/vt60-from-a-st50-holy-friken-dithering-dither-ditheryness#post_24525248


I have it on THX bright room, i did bump the color temp up to normal, and its still doing it. And isn't 2.2 like the target gamma? I know you would need an actual calibrater to know the actual gamma of the display.
You are shooting in the dark especially in high panel brightness I can tell you your brightness is not even close to what the correct setting is. Why would you buy something and try to make it look like an st50?
 

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Yeah pull up a dark scene and turn brightness down one tap at a time until you are satisfied with the shadow detail, if you want to be scientific about it use a black clipping pattern but remember every time you move gamma it calls for a brightness(black level) re-adjustment.


Here below are some anti-dither picture patterns, you can use them to tune out any high frequency noise but whats cool is the entire pics look almost static even viewed in dynamic mode, and if you look close you can see individual sub pixels standing still






 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ok I think you guys were right... I'm playing MEtro 2033 now and High pannel brightness crushes shadow datail and amps up the ditering..... But how do I make it not look like crap in bright scenes on mid pannel brightness? Red Ferrari's look maroon and greens and blues all look gray, on Forza on sunny day tracks (most of them) everything looks dim and dull like its cloudy and the color between the grass and the gray track look a lot closer than when on high or on my ST50
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I should say I have played around before and didn't notice such a dramatic difference as well as going through "cinema" and "THX cinema" and that didn't fix the dithering how ever bumping the panel brightness to mid on custom seemed to fix it ATM.


I can still see it in black screens tho, not like true black but black screens generated in movies and games between scenes thats a little lighter.
 

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What are all your settings? in general for defeating dithering


custom, professional, cinema > thx cinema, normal, dynamic etc

with gamma S-curve > 2.0 > 2.2 > 2.4 > 2.6 (s-curve emphasizes midtones and can look 'hot' or 'waxy' like an lcd)

contrast max > mid > min

white balance cool > normal > warm

black extension off

sharpness 0

color, desaturating helps a lot

brightness defines the black level and can only be set after gamma and contrast have been selected (2.6 calls for raised brightness, 2.0 will probably need subtle reduction)
 

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Discussion Starter #18

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadThunder  /t/1523981/vt60-from-a-st50-holy-friken-dithering-dither-ditheryness#post_24544416


What are all your settings? in general for defeating dithering


custom, professional, cinema > thx cinema, normal, dynamic etc

with gamma S-curve > 2.0 > 2.2 > 2.4 > 2.6 (s-curve emphasizes midtones and can look 'hot' or 'waxy' like an lcd)

contrast max > mid > min

white balance cool > normal > warm

black extension off

sharpness 0

color, desaturating helps a lot

brightness defines the black level and can only be set after gamma and contrast have been selected (2.6 calls for raised brightness, 2.0 will probably need subtle reduction)
I listed them a couple posts back but now have the panel brightness on mid and the "color" up to 60, that really seemed to help with everything looking gray but not as good as haveing the pannel brightness on high, it just really brings everything out.


I think I'm going to have to just get it calibrated but the only place I know of is best buy.
 
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