AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After reading many wattage questions here I thought I would ask.................Why don't receivers and amps incorporate wattage meters on the equipment? I would like to have a single component wattage/VU meter, either rack mount or free standing and in seven channels. I'm good with visuals as most people are. I remember back in the 70's you would see this more on equipment and it did give me a better understanding. what are my options?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,645 Posts
Some McIntosh amps do and the new Emotiva 2 channel amp does (sort'a, it has led's that light up).


Pro amps have clip lights which are helpful.


However, something you could do, which is what I've done, is buy a pre/pro with some kind of RTA or other means of monitoring the input and/or output signal, then setup the rest of your gear (amps) to clip at a certain reference point, say +0.5db. That way, you can keep an eye on your pre/pro's signal level and see that you're, for example, peaking at -6db during a song, which means you can turn it up another 6db without overloading your amps.


As you mentioned, consumer gear is kind'a boring now. My parents still have an old Pioneer receiver with digital VU meters. Not quite as cool as the analogs, but it was still fun to watch as a kid. Now'a days receivers are lit up a lot less to keep down the light in the HT's. People don't ooh and aah over hifi equipment like they used to. Now it just sits hidden in an entertainment center, never to be thought of or looked at except when it gets dusted off once a month.


Oh, here is that pre/pro I was talking about that I use with my subwoofers.
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx

"Multi-functional level meters (peak/RMS, VU and SPL meter with dBA/dBC weighting via RTA mic input)" Yes if you hook up a mic it will tell you your actual db's. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,608 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber /forum/post/15562700


Some McIntosh amps do and the new Emotiva 2 channel amp does (sort'a, it has led's that light up).


Pro amps have clip lights which are helpful.


However, something you could do, which is what I've done, is buy a pre/pro with some kind of RTA or other means of monitoring the input and/or output signal, then setup the rest of your gear (amps) to clip at a certain reference point, say +0.5db. That way, you can keep an eye on your pre/pro's signal level and see that you're, for example, peaking at -6db during a song, which means you can turn it up another 6db without overloading your amps.


As you mentioned, consumer gear is kind'a boring now. My parents still have an old Pioneer receiver with digital VU meters. Not quite as cool as the analogs, but it was still fun to watch as a kid. Now'a days receivers are lit up a lot less to keep down the light in the HT's. People don't ooh and aah over hifi equipment like they used to. Now it just sits hidden in an entertainment center, never to be thought of or looked at except when it gets dusted off once a month.


Oh, here is that pre/pro I was talking about that I use with my subwoofers.
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx

"Multi-functional level meters (peak/RMS, VU and SPL meter with dBA/dBC weighting via RTA mic input)" Yes if you hook up a mic it will tell you your actual db's. :)

Its a shame with all the GUI that they have on setup they could not incorporate the meters on your display for setup purposes and general

amp behavior.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,645 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech /forum/post/15562799


Its a shame with all the GUI that they have on setup they could not incorporate the meters on your display for setup purposes and general

amp behavior.

It has general LED's to monitor the signal (clip, -3, -6, -12, -18db, ect..) that are always on, but when adjusting the PEQ, GEQ, ect you only see that function on the GUI. Once I make my changes I click "meter" and I'm back to viewing the input/output signal in 1/10th db increments. It's pretty cool.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,318 Posts
The VU has given way to the LED.


Mac, Pass Labs and Accuphase still use the cool looking meters.


AVRS don't use them I'd say due to cost and space. Most VUs are on amps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,247 Posts
why would a manufacturer want a meter or indicators that tell the consumer the receiver or amp they bought clips?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,247 Posts
imagine the returns.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,900 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai /forum/post/15565389


why would a manufacturer want a meter or indicators that tell the consumer the receiver or amp they bought clips?

I've been involved in the development of a half dozen separate amplifiers, and I have always specified NO clipping indicators. I've also specified "soft-clip" output stages, so moderate clipping is inaudible and benign. The problem with clipping indicators on a 200 watt per channel amp is at an average of 50 watts output on program material, there will be clipped 300 watt peaks. When a customer doesn't understand the demands of peaks in a dynamic recording and he sees his clipping indicators light up, he is usually pissed.


I remember the breakthrough Audionics CC-2 power amp of the late '70s. It was the first real audiophile, mid-power, mid-price amplifier, with a semi-complimentary push-pull, low negative feedback circuit that was copied by dozens of big names for the next twenty years. It had front panel clipping indicators, and they would flash along with the snare and bass drums in rock music, even at moderate levels. I had to explain to my customers that as long as the clipping lights were not on continuously...they were okay...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,247 Posts
imagine how often they'd light up or peg with lower model receivers powering problematic loads?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai /forum/post/15565389


why would a manufacturer want a meter or indicators that tell the consumer the receiver or amp they bought clips?

It's kind of like truth in advertising. I like to know...................
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,608 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai /forum/post/15565770


imagine how often they'd light up or peg with lower model receivers powering problematic loads?

The problem would not be them flashing its when they stay on continuously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the input everyone..............."I even got a response from some of the AVS celebs".........anyway my Adcom five channel amp has yellow distortion alert LED's designed to glow/flicker when the THD levels reach appx 1%. It is at least some form of warning that the amp is near it's limit. I like that......It also has thermal protection LED's but that's another subject.

I found a meter but don't know anything about the manufacturer.

here it is.
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/SM5.1.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,645 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli /forum/post/15565528


I've been involved in the development of a half dozen separate amplifiers, and I have always specified NO clipping indicators. I've also specified "soft-clip" output stages, so moderate clipping is inaudible and benign. The problem with clipping indicators on a 200 watt per channel amp is at an average of 50 watts output on program material, there will be clipped 300 watt peaks. When a customer doesn't understand the demands of peaks in a dynamic recording and he sees his clipping indicators light up, he is usually pissed.


I remember the breakthrough Audionics CC-2 power amp of the late '70s. It was the first real audiophile, mid-power, mid-price amplifier, with a semi-complimentary push-pull, low negative feedback circuit that was copied by dozens of big names for the next twenty years. It had front panel clipping indicators, and they would flash along with the snare and bass drums in rock music, even at moderate levels. I had to explain to my customers that as long as the clipping lights were not on continuously...they were okay...

So with a customer losing dynamics (clip lights on) that's not problematic so long as they don't stay on? Seems to me a bigger amp is in order. Otherwise, why play vinyl, SACD, DVD-A, ect. If your amps are going to compress the signal themselves, might as well use standard compressed CD's or even MP3's.



On a side note, it seems like a great way for a salesman to sell a $3k amp instead of the $1k amp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,982 Posts
I like my Emotiva RPA-1 meters. But honestly they are pointless, very hard to read from afar.


I personally like the "look" that meters add, but i know alot of people hate them or find them really distracting.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,809 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai /forum/post/15565389


why would a manufacturer want a meter or indicators that tell the consumer the receiver or amp they bought clips?

I like the clipping lights. When they start to blink I know I can not turn it up any more no matter how much beer I drink.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,247 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo77 /forum/post/15567330


It's kind of like truth in advertising. I like to know...................

Me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech /forum/post/15567526


The problem would not be them flashing its when they stay on continuously.

Now, that could never happen.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,318 Posts
Quote:

Originally Posted by Espo77

It's kind of like truth in advertising. I like to know...................


and Chu Gai said... "Me too."


Only I F f they are accurate. In the pro world they have to be accurate or the concert or studio recording will be interupted.


I like looking at all this companies that have the VU's on the front face plate. I wonder how fast can the react to transient peaks. 1W RMS is load 5W RMS is insane in the average room mind you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dknightd /forum/post/15569624


I like the clipping lights. When they start to blink I know I can not turn it up any more no matter how much beer I drink.

Amen to that!

Note: some processors can be set to a max volume. I have mine set at around 75db (not easy to change after a couple of beers).
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top