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The HDMI for the upconverting Toshiba/DVD player utilizes HDCP. Component does not utilize HDCP. There are no HDMI to component cables -- it wouldn't work. HDMI is digital, component is analog.
 

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i believe this model can do the upconverting through component, but your tv has to be able to accept 720p or 1080i to actually see the conversion.

correct me here if i am wrong people........


cheers,
 

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With a component connection, the player has to convert the data to an analog format, send it over the wires, and then the tv has to convert it back and display it.


HDMI and DVI are the only way to send an uncompressed digital signal that I know of.


The DVB318 originally could up-convert over both component and DVI, but that kind of turned out to be an industry no-no. The current rev of firmware only allows it to happen over DVI because of the copy protection issues that HDCP solves.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes, but there still are some 318s out there without the firmware update and the people who got the early ones still have it. So why don't we use it??????????????????????
 

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Use what for what? The old Zenith firmware? The Zenith firmware is for the LG/Zenith machines, not for Brand XYZ DVD players. The Zenith update firmware disables the upconverted component ouput for Zenith machines and rectifies a video problem.


There are a few "rogue" upconverting players that utilize the analog component output. We may not see any more of these machines again. If upconversion to 720p or 1080i via component is vital to you, obtain a Momitsu V880 or an old-build Zenith DVB-318 quickly.
 

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I'm still searching for info on this but thought I would post here in the mean time. I have one of the old Mitsubishi HDTV's, I believe WS55803. No DVI or HDMI interfaces. My DVD player went bad so I wanted to get an upconverting one but from what I can determine, since I have no choice but to use a Component Video connection, if I try to upconvert a copy protected DVD it will scale back down to 480P. This really blows. I mean, I spent $4K on the TV about 5 years ago and now I can't use the HD inputs for what they're intended for? I have a cable box that gives me HD through component. Are they going to show up any day and ask to swap it out to protect the entertainment industry from me copying sitcoms or old movies on HBO etc.? I suppose first things first, like I said, I am first trying to determine if I have any other options such as to crack one of the upconverting players so that I can still get 1080 via component video. Maybe I should feel luckly that I didn't invest in plasma at that time ($20K+) since I'm sure they suffer from the same issues.


Correct me if I'm wrong but anything that could take a DVI or HDMI such as an HD receiver would be required to have copy protection built in and as such, if you attempt to feed it with a 1080 signal from a copy protected DVD then if it feeds an HDTV via component video it would force back down to 480p?


I do plan to call Mitsubishi to get any advice they might have which I assume will be something to the affect of "tough break buddy, buy a new TV".
 

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That's probably what's going to happen. Basically upconversion to 720p and 1080i means "HDCP required". There have been plenty of posts concerning this issue and plenty of people wanting to fight HDCP to the death. Fine, but in the meantime, if the non-HDCP TV is going to be a long term solution (5+ years from now) and upconversion is desired, I would purchase a Momitsu V880 Deluxe now before it's too late.
 

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Thanks for your input Paul. I was all set to buy the Zenith but after your comment I tried to research them a bit more. I'm not 100% clear on which the better machine is qualitywise except that in general I would not consider Zenith top of the line so I figure I'd be taking chances with either. It does appear that Momitsu doesn't have to play fair with the FCC which is a plus. :D So, I just ordered the 880N thinking that I may use some of the network features but also because my main receiver is a Pioneer and I read that there are some problems with the deluxe and some of the codes being the same as Pioneers. I would hate to find out that everytime I press play on the DVD my receiver would switch to Tape input or something like that. I ordered it from HKFLIX who showed it to be in stock so hopefully that is correct and it will be shipped soon.


Thanks again.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Tbone2000


I do plan to call Mitsubishi to get any advice they might have which I assume will be something to the affect of "tough break buddy, buy a new TV".
Cheers from another Mitsubishi owner that was "lured" into early adoption of HDTV by Mitsubishi's "Promise Module" of guaranteeing modules to remain compatible with near future technology advancements. Now, Mitsubishi says that only applies to 1394, not DVI. Grrrr..... Personally, I think there is SOME amount of marketing strategy going on with the dvi/hdcp connection issue in order to sell more televisions. Kinda like the way Intel seems to release a "totally new, all improved, can't live without" upgrade to chip technology every 8 months, and forces everyone to purchase a new $2000 computer. I mean, seriously, to squash 1080i ANALOG output when 20 million people already have the software to rip/copy DVD's digitally. It makes no sense whatsoever.


My advice is to find/purchase a couple of dvd upscaling players ASAP, one for use now, and a replacement for 4 years down the line when the first one dies. That should stretch the lifecycle of your tv to about 10 years (that's my plan, at least). After that, I'll probably steer clear from Mitsu, if there's other displays that come close.


Robert.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
THIS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL. Do they really want to get hdtv going or not. If they weren't so damn wishy washy about all this more people would have bought and hd would be a done deal. It's all about $.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by pilotbiffster

I mean, seriously, to squash 1080i ANALOG output when 20 million people already have the software to rip/copy DVD's digitally. It makes no sense whatsoever.
True and the sad thing is that as soon as enough external equiptment is available to "hack" the HDCP, which I have to imagine won't take long, then they will come up with another standard that everyone will have to adopt. I don't know, maybe having the "un-tampered" HDTV's will ultimately give us some flexibility that can not be had with the newer models.


I tried the approach of telling the wife that I have no choice but to buy a new TV but she wasn't going for it. :mad: :D
 

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Note that all the talk on this forum about "good analog video stages for 480i/480p over component" such as is present in the higher priced players - ala NSV, higher bit DAC's, high frequency DAC's, flat video response, etc. - are not present in the early "illegal" low-buck DVD players sporting 720p/1080i component output analog video stages. 720p/1080i component should have high performance video analog design even more so than 480p component because of the higher required 720p/1080i component video frequencies, IMHO.


Large display sizes probably will not look all that good at all with 1080i via component from these relatively inexpensive players. Well-engineered analog video stages outputting 1080i over component legally or illegally, early or present, don't exist for the HT enthusiast that I'm aware of.


We're stuck with: Either supurb 480p analog video, or DVI/HDMI 720p/1080i DVD player choices. So getting one of the early component 720p/1080i players may not be all that big of a deal, PQ-wise.


Sad, but true so far. :mad:
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by pnichols

We're stuck with: Either supurb 480p analog video, or DVI/HDMI 720p/1080i DVD player choices. So getting one of the early component 720p/1080i players may not be all that big of a deal, PQ-wise.


Sad, but true so far. :mad:
That all makes sense but my Toshiba SD, one of the first released with Progressive Scan, has just died for the 3rd or 4th time so I have to get something else. I thought about other higher end machines but I paid $800 for the Toshiba when I got it and have had more problems than with anything else I own. I am willing to pay for quality but when in the end I have lots of problems it agrevates me even more that I did pay so much for it. As for the quality of the Momitsu, I did read lots of posts of people saying that the picture quality was very good, and of course there were others saying that it wasn't all that great. I wish there were a player that solved everything. :D My biggest issue is lack of a DVI or HDMI input on my 5 year old Mitsubishi RPHDTV. I certainly hope that in the end I am not thoroughly disappointed but with the 880N at least I can also watch VOB's etc. which will be a nice plus. We'll see how it goes.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by pnichols


Large display sizes probably will not look all that good at all with 1080i via component from these relatively inexpensive players. Well-engineered analog video stages outputting 1080i over component legally or illegally, early or present, don't exist for the HT enthusiast that I'm aware of.
I don't know if that is so, but I have a Hidef DirectTV STB that outputs at 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i via component. I can see a vast improvement in non hidef channels when I switch from 480p component to 1080i component (both resolutions have been calibrated on my tv). When I switch hidef signals (DiscoveryHD, HDNET, local HD terrestrial channels) between 480p and 1080i, I see some, but not as much improvement at 1080i. I just received a DVB318 yesterday, but haven't been home yet to hook it up and compare. Will let you know if I see a similar improvement.


I agree with your point that 1080i component should have a more stringent design and build tolerance. Perhaps it would be that much better than the current crop of upconverting players.
 

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I agree 100% that 1080i is worlds better than 480p assuming that the original feed is 1080i. I think the issue pnichols is making is more due to DVD native resolution not being 1080i. I am not clear if 480p is the absolute max and if it is then upconverting to 1080i will only be displaying 480p on a screen with higher resolution / more scan lines such that it may be no better and since it has to go through more conversions then it may ultimately be worse. The other side is that I have read a number of posts related to the HDTV's being optimized to show the best picture at 1080i so maybe it would be sightly better depending on the TV. On the other hand, DVD's in PAL format I believe have higher resolution than 480p so it would stand to reason that they would ultimately look better in 1080i. Again this depends on how much signal loss occurs with the various additional conversion steps. I am no expert, just passing along what I believe I understand.


I would be very interested in your feedback with the 318.
 
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