[beck4353]

I am going to be converting my garage into a home theater this Spring with my inspiration and design being leveraged from this great build:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1208912/the-cinemar-home-theater-construction-thread


Near the end of that build thread, he built his own sub, which led me to this forum. Now my interest is piqued and I would like to build whatever speakers I can for my room, but don't have any background on most of the audio theories that I see in this forum.


I have a full compliment of tools, so would rather build vs. buying a kit if possible. I was initially looking at Econowave Deluxe designs, but the build/summary thread for those leaves me not clear on how to start.


What would you guys propose? Should I stick to just building subs for my theater or is it feasible that I could be successful building any number of my 7/9 speakers that I will be using in my configuration? Is there anything more along the lines of a "guide" that doesn't involve reading 900 pages of posts to try to discern what is needed? I am not scared of the effort involved, just looking for a little more guidance than what I am finding.


For reference, my room will be 21' L x 15' W x 9' H. Planning on 9.2 setup, AT screen. Do not have any amps or receivers yet. Not married to the Econonwave if there are more suitable alternatives. Price is obviously a concern, but somewhere under $400/speaker for LCR would be desired.


Any opinions or help would be appreciated.

 

[Anthony_Gomez]

When you say build, do you mean not use flat packs or you want to design your own crossover and chose drivers?

DIYSoundgroup has lots of kits where you can still build your own boxes. They are extremely popular here. I think the waveguide/high efficiency is very desirable in HT where dymanics rain supreme.


At $400 per speaker, you can get just about any kit on that site. With an AT, I'd personally opt for a full set of Tux-1099 (all vertical MTM). They aren't on the site yet, but you can get more info here (mainly in the first post)
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1479331/a-3-way-99db-multi-configurable-seos-design


http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html


I've been putting together a list of build threads too, so if you want to see what other people do with SEOS designs (not a giant 900 page thread )
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1520123/seos-compendium

 

[beck4353]

Thanks for the quick reply. By build I mean not use flatpacks if possible. It would be necessary for me to follow a proven crossover and driver design.


I checked out diysoundgroup before posting and was slightly confused from the waveguide page, largely because I was expecting to see some Econowave links etc. Do people here build all their speakers, including surrounds, or just LCR and subs?


I am heading over to the 2 thread links you posted, thanks for the help.

 

[BeerParty]

Have you looked through the Master Index of DIY Speaker Projects ?


At the bottom are links to builder websites, such as Curt's Speaker Design Works and Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects .

 

[beck4353]

Thanks, yes I did look through that list which helped but also added to my confusion. I didn't notice the links to builder websites that you mentioned, so that is a big help. Paul Carmody's site is kinda what I am looking for.


I will continue to research but I am kind of anxious to get going on building some of my speakers while I have some time until I get into the theater build. Being the speaker rookie that I am, I guess I was hoping there would be a strong recommendation of speaker builds that would suit my environment as well as sub builds that would pair nicely with those speakers.


I went the commercial route on my last theater and bought some Polk speakers but was never really happy with the sound. Always sounded like it was missing something. This time I am going full bore and doing sound isolation and acoustic treatment for the room, and hopefully some DIY speakers.


BTW, appearance is not very important to me as every speaker will be in a column, cabinet or behind the screen.

 

[mobeer4don]

The econowave deluxe design is complete except that the enclosure was never really optimized for for the 3012LF woofer. It was more or less slapped into the flat-pack trap enclosure and called good enough. So you have the freedom to go with a smaller sealed enclosure and aim for an 80 Hz crossover to the subs or you can go with a large ported design and get closer to full range. The choice is yours...as it is for most any DIY design. A similar design using the SEOS 12 and Deltalite 2512 woofer can be found here
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0 The components are a little more budget friendly.


Good luck!

 

[petew]

 http://www.pispeakers.com/contents.html is another resource. They do not sell flatpacks, and their plans are not paint by numbers simple but are adequate. They're pushing your budget a bit on LCR, but the 1pi and 2pi make great inexpensive surrounds.

 

[NWCgrad]

I believe Pi will sell a front baffle which can save a lot of effort and reduce frustration.

 

[Noman74656]



Quote:
Originally Posted by beck4353  /t/1520146/want-to-build-my-own-speakers-should-i#post_24417249


Planning on 9.2 setup, AT screen. Do not have any amps or receivers yet. Not married to the Econonwave if there are more suitable alternatives. Price is obviously a concern, but somewhere under $400/speaker for LCR would be desired.


Any opinions or help would be appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony_Gomez  /t/1520146/want-to-build-my-own-speakers-should-i#post_24417287


When you say build, do you mean not use flat packs or you want to design your own crossover and chose drivers?

DIYSoundgroup has lots of kits where you can still build your own boxes. They are extremely popular here. I think the waveguide/high efficiency is very desirable in HT where dymanics rain supreme.


At $400 per speaker, you can get just about any kit on that site. With an AT, I'd personally opt for a full set of Tux-1099 (all vertical MTM). They aren't on the site yet, but you can get more info here (mainly in the first post)
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1479331/a-3-way-99db-multi-configurable-seos-design


http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html


I've been putting together a list of build threads too, so if you want to see what other people do with SEOS designs (not a giant 900 page thread )
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1520123/seos-compendium

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobeer4don  /t/1520146/want-to-build-my-own-speakers-should-i#post_24424716


The econowave deluxe design is complete except that the enclosure was never really optimized for for the 3012LF woofer. It was more or less slapped into the flat-pack trap enclosure and called good enough. So you have the freedom to go with a smaller sealed enclosure and aim for an 80 Hz crossover to the subs or you can go with a large ported design and get closer to full range. The choice is yours...as it is for most any DIY design. A similar design using the SEOS 12 and Deltalite 2512 woofer can be found here
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0 The components are a little more budget friendly.


Good luck!

I second the http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html . You can just order the baffles if you want, and there are lists of the parts that go with it if you really don't want to go with the kit.


You mentioned you don't have a receiver or amps yet. The sensitivity of the waveguide speaker is such that you could drive them with receiver alone easily.

 

[beck4353]

That's an interesting comment. I was under the impression that I would need some amplification at least for my LCR. If I don't need any for these speakers, that could save me some money.


I was looking through that page and see that a good portion of the speaker kits are labeled "Out of Stock". Does stock fluctuate on that site and I just need to wait, or are my choices limited to what is in stock for now? Is there a particular type of sub build that compliments waveguide speakers better than others, or would any sub build suffice?


Also, one more newb question. I have seen listed here and on the speaker kit page: "This speaker is designed to perform best when crossed over to a subwoofer around 80hz". Is that accomplished with the crossover (or parts) that comes with the kit, or does that mean I will need a separate crossover?


Thanks again for helping a rookie out!

 

[mobeer4don]

Yes, the efficiency of waveguide speakers with pro-audio woofers means you can get stupid loud on typical HTR power. Nothing special about choosing a sub to go with them except that you want them to keep up. Clean and loud is always good. The 80 Hz crossover is handled by your HT receiver.

 

[BassThatHz]

How loud do you like your bass?

 

[beck4353]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz  /t/1520146/want-to-build-my-own-speakers-should-i#post_24435761


How loud do you like your bass?

Haha, that'll do nicely.

 

[beck4353]

OK, after reading many other threads along with some suggestions from this thread, I am thinking about the following for a 7.2 system:


Subs: 2 MartyCubes using Si 18" HT D2

LCR: 3 Fusion 12 Tempest from diysoundgroup

Surrounds: 4 Fusion 8 Alchemy from diysoundgroup

AMP: iNuke 6000DSP powering the subs

Receiver: ?? open to suggestions somewhere around $1000


From what I understand I won't need any other amplification althoughI guess that depends on the receiver I choose.


I will pre-wire for 9.2 and I can add 2 more Fusion 8 in the future if I get a receiver that supports it.


Any thoughts on this setup? Also, and pros/cons of running this setup with an AT screen with the LCR behind it?


Refresher, room is 15w x 21L x 9H


Thanks!

 

[Trepidati0n]



Quote:
Originally Posted by beck4353  /t/1520146/want-to-build-my-own-speakers-should-i#post_24436961


Receiver: ?? open to suggestions somewhere around $1000

Picking a receiver is harder than picking a DIY speaker. You NEED to do the math on how much power you need. One thing that is often not understood or forgotten is that receiver power is only one piece of the puzzle. What matters more, IMO, is speaker sensitivity and maximum SPL. The higher the speaker sensitivity the less receiver you typically need; this of course is also adjusted by maximum power handling. So, here is what you do.


1. Make a speaker and listener positioning diagram with distances

2. Get the metrics on the speakers you plan on using (most importantly sensitivity).

3. Go to the link below and run the math for each speaker.

http://www.crownaudio.com/elect-pwr-req.htm


Headroom 3 dB

dB Max 105
Code:

[CODE]Speaker  Position      Sens     Range   Range   db Max  Power Needed
[#]      [---]         [dB]     [feet]  [m]     [dBA]   [dBW]   [W]
1        Left          99       12      4.00    105     21.04   127
2        Center        99       12      4.00    105     21.04   127
3        Right         99       12      4.00    105     21.04   127
4        Back Left     95       5       1.67    105     17.44   55
5        Back Right    95       5       1.67    105     17.44   55
6        Side Left     95       7       2.33    105     20.36   109
7        Side Right    95       7       2.33    105     20.36   109

[/CODE]


In my case I was very much crafting around a "typical AVR" in the $1000 price range which gives ~125W per channel. I know I don't have 125W into each channel, but that is a compromise for now.

 

[wvu80]



Quote:
Originally Posted by beck4353  /t/1520146/want-to-build-my-own-speakers-should-i/0_50#post_24436961


OK, after reading many other threads along with some suggestions from this thread, I am thinking about the following for a 7.2 system:


Subs: 2 MartyCubes using Si 18" HT D2

LCR: 3 Fusion 12 Tempest from diysoundgroup

Surrounds: 4 Fusion 8 Alchemy from diysoundgroup

AMP: iNuke 6000DSP powering the subs

Receiver: ?? open to suggestions somewhere around $1000


From what I understand I won't need any other amplification although I guess that depends on the receiver I choose.


I will pre-wire for 9.2 and I can add 2 more Fusion 8 in the future if I get a receiver that supports it.

Any thoughts on this setup? Also, and pros/cons of running this setup with an AT screen with the LCR behind it?


Refresher, room is 15w x 21L x 9H


Thanks!

Superb setup! You have got some serious speakers that will move a lot of air, with a very high quality of sound.


I know you are trying to "future proof" your system with wiring for 9.1, but in my living room setup the 5.1 does a great job, and all the extra two back speakers do is have the side surrounds sound sent to the back speakers. What seems to be more desirable these days is surround WIDE and surround HIGH, with the WIDE concept generating the most interest, due to having a better (wider) front sound stage. You have enough speakers to experiment with 5.1 + wides/highs. Any AVR in the $1,000 range will do backs, wides, highs.


You might go over to the AVS receiver/Amp discussion forum to get additional specific recommendations on AVR's. Just like here, those regular posters have opinions.

This thread is you: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1520795/avr-purchasing-advice-needed/0_50

http://www.avsforum.com/products/onkyo-tx-nr929-9-2-channel-network-a-v-receiver
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1502616/the-official-onkyo-tx-nr929-owners-thread/0_50

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SC-1523-K-9-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B00DQHZYRI/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

 

[mobeer4don]

I was going to suggest trying to find the Yamaha RX-A2020 (last year's model) or RX-A2030 (current model) on clearance for about $1000-$1100. The Yamaha RX-A1020 is $699 at Crutchfield...well worth taking a look at.

 

[Scott Simonian]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz  /t/1520146/want-to-build-my-own-speakers-should-i#post_24435761


How loud do you like your bass?

Lol. I like the movie but his character and the whole thing about, "speakers so loud they blow girls clothes off".


While I love the idea

it's just ..... sigh.


And c'mon... with Martin Logan's? Let's say "these are so loud!" *uses most inefficient speaker on Earth*

 

[pokeme]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian  /t/1520146/want-to-build-my-own-speakers-should-i#post_24438213



Lol. I like the movie but his character and the whole thing about, "speakers so loud they blow girls clothes off".


While I love the idea

it's just ..... sigh.


And c'mon... with Martin Logan's? Let's say "these are so loud!" *uses most inefficient speaker on Earth*

Deaf girls are hotter right? J/K!!!

 

[Scott Simonian]

In my case, probably better that they be blind.