[holdenkicks]

Ok well Ive recently obtained two old CRT porjectors, a Sony VPH-1000QM and a Sony VPH-1001QM. Seems to be very little difference between the two except for the 1001 model has digital controls and an OSD whilst the 1000QM only has analog controls.


The 1001QM doesnt work properly and Im not even going to try and fix it (has snow and fuzziness on the image even with no input or on the test pattern generator). the 1000QM has what appears to be mould or something on the INSIDE on the front glass, where the liquid stuff (oil?) is, which I assume is there for cooling.


So im wondering if there is a way that I could actually get to these spots that make my image less bright and somewhat blurry, to clean them off? The whole lot looks sealed and so Im also considering just swapping the crt tubes out from the non-working 1001QM projector into my working but blurry 1000QM projector.


Ive some sites about safely working on CRT's (cant post the link unfortunately due to forum rules)



Unfortunately I dont have access to a HV probe as described in one of the procedures that I read and I'm not entirely clear on how to make one using some wire and a resistor, nor where I could buy said resistor.


Another site said you can make one using some wire and a screwdriver and basically connecting it to the ground pin of an earthed electrical outlet, but this sounds a bit dodgey. Has anybody here had any success in discharging a CRT using a home made device with a screwdriver and some wire?


I should say here that I've never worked on anything that contains a CRT before but I am aware that these things contain up to 30,000 volts and to keep one hand behind my back so I dont get a shcok across my chest...



So what advice can you guys give me before I embark on swapping over the red and blue tubes, assuming that I cant clean the existing tubes? I know the basics like handling them carefully to avoid snapping the neck etc. but not the more technical things.

 

[alan halvorson]

That "oil" is glycol and it's very corrosive to electronics and to you. I suggest you peruse Curt Palme's website (click here) , especially his CRT Primer section. These are pretty old projectors and, I believe, video grade only. Not really worth bothering with even if you get them working. If you really want to get into CRT front projection, I suggest looking into Curt's For Sale section for a cheap but still good projector.

 

[Dave Lister]

Being a Holden fan you must be an Aussie too, where are you?


I have a VPH1000QM too.


The CRT's can be discharged with the screwdriver method but you connect the wire to the metal chassis of the projector not to the power point, make sure the projector is off.

Generally, if you leave it unplugged for a day or so it should be discharged anyway.


The glycol can be drained and the mould cleaned off the glass, see the link to curts site above for more info.


Does the VPH1001QM use the same tubes (SD187) and if so what condition are they in?

 

[jtnfoley]

The growth is often called "fungus" (it's not) and is actually (in most cases) an aluminum salt that has precipitated out of the glycol.

Folks have successfully removed it with a chemical descaler (coffee pot cleaner, "CLR" (calcium, lime, rust remover here in the US, or ""Lime Away.") This is documented in Curts' site.

 

[holdenkicks]

Your responses have been MOST helpful! Very much appreciated. And yep, im australian, currently on the Gold Coast of QLD.


One quick question; Where does the charge go to if you hook the screwdriver up to the steel chassis of the projector when discharging the CRT? Am I supposed to leave the power cord connected to the projector and power point so that the chassis is connected to Earth?


I am intrigued that you can actually clean the fungus from these tubes although I've read the procedure and it does look a bit involved. I guess I could do it, however I can see that it still requires the removal of the crt tubes, meaning I still have to discharge it etc. So I may aswell change the tubes over with the clean ones that I have! Also, I believe that the blue tube in my 1000QM has pretty much had it (focus is horrible) and will need to be changed.


I have read elsewhere (although the authority of the source is questionable) that CRT tubes can hold their lethal charge for ages, like months or something.



So Im a little confused as to who to trust regarding this issue. If I could leave the tubes off for a week or two and not have to discharge it, then that would be preferable to having to discharge it via the screwdriver method, however I REALLY dont want to run the risk of being electrocuted. Also, Ive read that a charge can "re-appear" in the tubes even after they have been discharged but not re-connected to a power source. How can I prevent this?


Your advice is appreciated

 

[spotmatic]

BTW, the 1001QM uses 07MS tubes, so it is relatively bright. I also have a minty one here that needs to have the tubes cleaned. No big deal: I usually do that in one evening. You should not be afraid of the HV. In fact: even after several hours there's nothing to worry about. I have cleaned many tubes, with the first ones I used rubber gloves but after a while I got over it and I'm not worried anymore.


BTW 2, my 1001QM came with the original RM-PJ1044 remote (wired). Do you also have the remote?

 

[Axatax]

I've never had to "discharge" my G70. Is this something peculiar to the 1000QM? A CRT PJ doesn't have voltage biasing like a television set or computer monitor (that I have ever heard of).

 

[Dave Lister]

The CRT acts like a capacitor and stores a charge, when you connect the wire from the screwdriver to the chassis it it connected to the negative of the projectors power supplies (neg is common and also the earth point) which is also connected to the negative of the CRT.

Touching the screwdriver to the connector under the suction cup (the positive) on the bell of the CRT will discharge it because it gives the electrons a path from positive to negative, they cancel out.

There is silicone sealant holding the suction cup to the CRT, use a fine bladed screwdriver to get under it, you will need to replace the silicone sealant after, normal clear bathroom or roof and gutter sealant can be used.


Charge can re-appear in electrolytic capacitors but this is mostly due to the electrolyte having an electrochemical reaction with the plates inside the capacitor, they can sometimes accumulate a charge from the atmosphere but this is mostly a problem with high voltage capacitors.

A CRT has no electrolyte and also should not accumulate a charge from the atmosphere.

Most electronic equipment is designed to discharge within 1 hour due to safety regulations.

The charge held in a CRT is high voltage and low current, it is the current that is lethal not voltage, the higher the voltage the easier it is for the electrons to be conducted.

The current that can be generated will only be a few milliamps (15 milliamps is considered the lethal amount) but precautions are taken to be safe.

Microwave capacitors (although having a built in discharge resistor) are considered a lethal component unless discharged and have been known to hold a charge for months.



You can leave the power cord connected to keep the earth wire connected to earth but it is unnecessary, just make sure that both power (next to the power cord) and project (next to the sound/brightness/contrast etc controls) buttons on the projector are OFF.



The blue focus problem you mentioned may not be a problem as the blue tube is usually de-focussed as a means of evening out its high and low end output, your eyes are less sensitive to blue which makes focusing your eyes on it difficult and also means that the blue has less effect on picture quality (PQ) and resolution.

Were you looking at the CRT through the lens or at the screen you are projecting onto?

You need to be looking at the CRT through the lens or even take the lenses off, they come off as 1 piece if you unscrew the metal plate they are connected to, there are approximately 4 screws for this.


The focus and brightness (G2) for all 3 tubes is controlled by the black box next to the outflow fan that is on top of the projector (when table or floor mounted), use a non magnetic screwdriver although plastic is best as metal has an effect on the magnetic fields of the projector and will mean constant re adjustment as the picture changes when you remove the metal screwdriver.


If you decide to change the tubes then leave all the attachments (deflection yoke and other bits held in place by metal rings that unscrew) on the back of them or you will have to go through all the astig adjustment for each tube, you may still need to do the astig adjustment but it will be easier if you have not moved the bits on the back of the CRT's.

Just unplug the neck board which is the small board connected to the pins on the end of the CRT.

It would be easier to remove the aluminium salts (I mistakenly called mould) then you won't have to do any astig adjustment.

Astig adjustment controls spot size and shape which is done using the brown rings that are closest to the neck board.


To disconnect the high voltage lead that is done at the HV splitter, you push the lead into the socket and turn (left I think) as it works like a bayonet connection (like the push and turn light fittings we use).

You can remove this end of the lead from the HV splitter and touch the screwdriver to the end of the lead instead of pushing the screwdriver under the suction cup as there is a protective rubber boot on the HV slitter end of it.


The one hand behind your back idea is normally one hand in your pocket as there is less chance of you reacting to something and pulling your hand out of your pocket and touching something as opposed to moving your hand from behind your back.




Specs of the VPH1000QM if you do not have the manual are:

600 lumens

Vertical Resolution:

1000 lines RGB

650 lines video

Horizontal frequency:

15.75kHz (no progressive scan, that needs 32kHz you will fry it if you try progressive scan)

Vertical frequency:

50/60Hz

Power consumption:

230 Watts

Weight:

30Kgs


If you read about a VPH1000QM with 80,000 hours (and counting) on the tubes then that is mine.

 

[holdenkicks]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lister /forum/post/0


The CRT acts like a capacitor and stores a charge, when you connect the wire from the screwdriver to the chassis it it connected to the negative of the projectors power supplies (neg is common and also the earth point) which is also connected to the negative of the CRT.

Touching the screwdriver to the connector under the suction cup (the positive) on the bell of the CRT will discharge it because it gives the electrons a path from positive to negative, they cancel out.

There is silicone sealant holding the suction cup to the CRT, use a fine bladed screwdriver to get under it, you will need to replace the silicone sealant after, normal clear bathroom or roof and gutter sealant can be used.


Charge can re-appear in electrolytic capacitors but this is mostly due to the electrolyte having an electrochemical reaction with the plates inside the capacitor, they can sometimes accumulate a charge from the atmosphere but this is mostly a problem with high voltage capacitors.

A CRT has no electrolyte and also should not accumulate a charge from the atmosphere.

Most electronic equipment is designed to discharge within 1 hour due to safety regulations.

The charge held in a CRT is high voltage and low current, it is the current that is lethal not voltage, the higher the voltage the easier it is for the electrons to be conducted.

The current that can be generated will only be a few milliamps (15 milliamps is considered the lethal amount) but precautions are taken to be safe.

Microwave capacitors (although having a built in discharge resistor) are considered a lethal component unless discharged and have been known to hold a charge for months.



You can leave the power cord connected to keep the earth wire connected to earth but it is unnecessary, just make sure that both power (next to the power cord) and project (next to the sound/brightness/contrast etc controls) buttons on the projector are OFF.



The blue focus problem you mentioned may not be a problem as the blue tube is usually de-focussed as a means of evening out its high and low end output, your eyes are less sensitive to blue which makes focusing your eyes on it difficult and also means that the blue has less effect on picture quality (PQ) and resolution.

Were you looking at the CRT through the lens or at the screen you are projecting onto?

You need to be looking at the CRT through the lens or even take the lenses off, they come off as 1 piece if you unscrew the metal plate they are connected to, there are approximately 4 screws for this.


The focus and brightness (G2) for all 3 tubes is controlled by the black box next to the outflow fan that is on top of the projector (when table or floor mounted), use a non magnetic screwdriver although plastic is best as metal has an effect on the magnetic fields of the projector and will mean constant re adjustment as the picture changes when you remove the metal screwdriver.


If you decide to change the tubes then leave all the attachments (deflection yoke and other bits held in place by metal rings that unscrew) on the back of them or you will have to go through all the astig adjustment for each tube, you may still need to do the astig adjustment but it will be easier if you have not moved the bits on the back of the CRT's.

Just unplug the neck board which is the small board connected to the pins on the end of the CRT.

It would be easier to remove the aluminium salts (I mistakenly called mould) then you won't have to do any astig adjustment.

Astig adjustment controls spot size and shape which is done using the brown rings that are closest to the neck board.


To disconnect the high voltage lead that is done at the HV splitter, you push the lead into the socket and turn (left I think) as it works like a bayonet connection (like the push and turn light fittings we use).

You can remove this end of the lead from the HV splitter and touch the screwdriver to the end of the lead instead of pushing the screwdriver under the suction cup as there is a protective rubber boot on the HV slitter end of it.


The one hand behind your back idea is normally one hand in your pocket as there is less chance of you reacting to something and pulling your hand out of your pocket and touching something as opposed to moving your hand from behind your back.




Specs of the VPH1000QM if you do not have the manual are:

600 lumens

Vertical Resolution:

1000 lines RGB

650 lines video

Horizontal frequency:

15.75kHz (no progressive scan, that needs 32kHz you will fry it if you try progressive scan)

Vertical frequency:

50/60Hz

Power consumption:

230 Watts

Weight:

30Kgs


If you read about a VPH1000QM with 80,000 hours (and counting) on the tubes then that is mine.

Hi there guys


Once again thanks for all the helpful and informative responses. This forum seems like a great place to share info!


Dave, I understand what your saying about the blue tube, however when i look at my picture on the wall, the blue just looks so out of focus its horrible, especially compared to the green and red tubes. Looking into the crt through the lens, it doesnt look too bad. However the idea of having the higher lumens tubes from my 1001QM is also another reason why Id like to swap them, more brightness = good

Also I know that the blue tubes go first so I may aswell swap it for a newer one while I have the chance.


I DO have the manual for the 1000QM - I bought it off a website for $15 that sells manuals (I found it by googling "VPH-1000QM manual"), whilst it is a rather ordinary b+W scan of the original paper manual into a PDF doco, it was very helpful in enabling me to fix up the convergence and dissasembly of the PJ etc. So I know where all the controls are etc, but thanks anyway!


Ok so point taken about one hand in the pocket. Ill prolly go with the rubber glove cos Im scaredy cat, lol. And I do intend on leaving all the attachments on the tubes, as I want to make the process as simple as possible.

Quick question Dave; Would you recommend slipping the screwdriver under the suction cup or touching it to the end of the lead that connects to the HV splitter? Which would you choose?

One other question I have: if I swap out my blue and red tubes from the 1000QM which are 600 lumens for the tubes in my 1001QM which I believe are 700 lumens, but leave the perfectly good green tube in place, can I correct for this brightness difference between the red+blue (700Lumens) and green (600L) tubes by simply turning down the brightness controls for the red and blue tubes to match the green tube?


I would consider cleaning out my red tube as it looks to be OK with the exception of the aluminium salts in the glycol, however since I know I want to definitely swap the blue tube over, I figure I may aswell do the red one aswell, because Im not keen on fiddling around with corrosive chemicals and having to filter the glycol thru a coffee filter and then inject it back into the front of the tube, as shown on curts website. Also, being in australia, I dont know if we have a "CLR" equivalent (the stuff used in the tutorial for removing the salts from the glass).



Once again, thanks for all the info and taking the time to read my questions!


PS I dont have the remote control but if it does exist then I may be able to find it in the store room I got the PJ's from; however I have the PJ floor mounted and its easy to access so Im not worried about not having a remote for it.

 

[Curt Palme]

Sorry, haven't had time to respond to your email, but yes, the SD 130, SD 187 and 07MS can all be swapped.


SD 130- 475-500 lumens, first generation tube

SD 187- 600 lumens, second generation tube

07MS- a bit sharper than the above, 750 lumens, third generation tube.


The 07MS uses a slightly different focus voltage than the SD tubes, but the focus control will compensate for it. THe screen or G2 controls will compensate for the slight variations in brightness between the tubes so you can mix and match all three of the above no problem.


Caveat though: A weak SD 130 won't give a good color balance when mated with mint 07MS..

 

[Axatax]



Quote:
The CRT acts like a capacitor and stores a charge, when you connect the wire from the screwdriver to the chassis it it connected to the negative of the projectors power supplies (neg is common and also the earth point) which is also connected to the negative of the CRT.

Touching the screwdriver to the connector under the suction cup (the positive) on the bell of the CRT will discharge it because it gives the electrons a path from positive to negative, they cancel out.

There is silicone sealant holding the suction cup to the CRT, use a fine bladed screwdriver to get under it, you will need to replace the silicone sealant after, normal clear bathroom or roof and gutter sealant can be used.


Charge can re-appear in electrolytic capacitors but this is mostly due to the electrolyte having an electrochemical reaction with the plates inside the capacitor, they can sometimes accumulate a charge from the atmosphere but this is mostly a problem with high voltage capacitors.

A CRT has no electrolyte and also should not accumulate a charge from the atmosphere.

Most electronic equipment is designed to discharge within 1 hour due to safety regulations.

The charge held in a CRT is high voltage and low current, it is the current that is lethal not voltage, the higher the voltage the easier it is for the electrons to be conducted.

The current that can be generated will only be a few milliamps (15 milliamps is considered the lethal amount) but precautions are taken to be safe.

Microwave capacitors (although having a built in discharge resistor) are considered a lethal component unless discharged and have been known to hold a charge for months.



You can leave the power cord connected to keep the earth wire connected to earth but it is unnecessary, just make sure that both power (next to the power cord) and project (next to the sound/brightness/contrast etc controls) buttons on the projector are OFF.

I've handled the CRTs within ~2 mins of powering off the set (enough time to open the cover) and never had a problem.

 

[Dave Lister]

CLR is available in Australia, I have a bottle of it that I haven't even used, try Bunnings (might only be an SA hardware store) as I think that is where I got it, maybe the supermarket.


Curt has answered your questions about swapping tubes between these models and also a question I posted over on his site (I highly recommend Curts site as well as here for PJ info) about swapping the SD130 tubes from a VPH1020QM into my VPH1000QM (SD187).

If I can't get the 1020 fixed then I will use the tubes from it in my 1000, even with the tubes lumen rating being lower it will be better than the 80,000 hour tubes the 1000 has in it.


If you are going to swap tubes you might as well do all 3 and save having to correct for colour balance between different tubes.

 

[beamerdreamer]

Hi there. I've got a Sony 1041qm - £20.00 from ebay and whilst old, basic and only video quality, it is fine for dvd's etc. Plus it is a wonderful way to cut your teeth and learn.


I'd thoroughly recommend that you de-fungus the tubes on your working projector - I had the same issue and spent a few months wanting to do it and being too scared to get it done. I found a great link on how to remove the fungus without taking the tubes out and managed to clean all 3 in about an hour. You can use any 'heavy duty' cleaner - I live in Germany and simply chose the one product in the household cleaner section that had a warning to wear gloves. Sony tubes are great as you can simply remove the little screws on the tube face top and suck out the glycol with a syringe. Flush a few times with cleaner, rinse with distilled water and refill with the glycol ( having run it through a coffee filter ). Sounds much much harder than it is.


The difference in picture quality is night and day - you won't regret it. Give it a try and see if you catch the bug enough to want to upgrade. If you do then you can go crazy on your old projector and learn how to set it up - knowing that if you make mistakes it won't matter so much ( but it is pretty hard to ruin these sets ). Good luck mate - welcome to the club.

 

[newbieDAN]

As far as the remote goes its a VPR-722, doesn't really do much other than power the machine up, the biggest, and most expensive problem with using one is trying to find one of the specialist interconnect cables...having had a VPH-1000QM with glass HACC HD-6 lenses and remote etc.....I can honestly say the it not worth the trouble IF you cannot get hold of the 14pin CCQ cable.


With the blue focus, have you tried to adjust the trim pot? with the top cover completely removed top left hand corner you'll see an adjustment for G2 (tube drive) and electronic focus....and although the blue tube will NEVER focus as sharp as the others (as it is automatically defocused) you might make some gains here.


You should really go to the trouble of completely removing the glass from the cooling chamber on the tube face, 'cause the the glycol is reacting with the exposed aluminium from the chamber. You'll need to paint any alum surface on the tube that will be in contact with the glycol. It is worth doing properly.


Your in the right place.

have fun

Dan