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hidef...


"Just like MP3s killed the CD format."


And how the recording industry has responded is a good example of how a whole industry can act in way that does more harm to itself than for the "artist" it is suppose to represent and depend on. Talk about a strategy that may win a battle but lose a war......


It is possible for Toshiba and the HD-DVD group to follow the recording industry's lead. If they do they will hurt the industry greatly. It would be nice to see them take a moment to lick their wounds and then retool for bluray and have the thing over and done.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Johnson /forum/post/12692193


If I was Toshiba. I would now be trying to cost SONY and the partners as much money as possible.


Drop the price on the player permanently to $99 and screw the lot of them. I would like to see the studios ignore an established base of 5 million players.


95% of people wouldnt even blink about plopping down $99 for a player that up-converts nicely AND plays HD DVD's.


Make Sony CHOKE on that 500 million bribe


I just personally love the thought of the destiny of Hidef being directed by a heap of nerds with a PS3. NOT

Toshiba should sell the cell processor (that they just bought from sony) to microsoft. microsoft tell's sony sorry but we are retooling the factory so no new cell's for a year or so.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k /forum/post/12694053


There's nothing illogical in hating Sony, the worst abuser we've ever seen in CE and gaming history but it's another topic.


Among all the 3 consoles PS3 is hardly making a dent compared to 360 or Wii - it is losing to the other two, that's the correct term in this "battle-focused" world we live.

If you count in the PC then all consoles sales are laughable - 200M+ PCs are being sold per year and it's growing...

... and most of new PCs in forthcoming years are going to have a BD burner
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k /forum/post/12694015


It's an all out war already, that's why I'm curious about the counterattack - this Waner move is BIG so expect something BIG from the HD DVD camp...

A counterattack implies a strong position. Look at their reaction so far: a "hurt" press release. A canceled press conference at CEO. They were clearly taken by surprise. And to mount an effective counter punch will take some planning, for which I don't think there's time.


Besides, what can they do? They will need at least two studios switch from blue to return to parity. It doesn't seem possible at this point. Even if they literally give away the players, the public won't go for it unless there's media. I just can't see what options they have left other than to fold up and call it a day. It's not really the end of the world. Toshiba can still sell Blu-ray players and make a profit. OK, they won't get the royalties, but that's business.


Sony eventually made very nice VHS players and did quite well.


Availability of media is the sole differentiator. And blue has the strong advantage.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k /forum/post/12694053


There's nothing illogical in hating Sony, the worst abuser we've ever seen in CE and gaming history but it's another topic.


Among all the 3 consoles PS3 is hardly making a dent compared to 360 or Wii - it is losing to the other two, that's the correct term in this "battle-focused" world we live.

If you count in the PC then all consoles sales are laughable - 200M+ PCs are being sold per year and it's growing...

If that's your stance, then XBOX, WII, and PS3 are all failed game systesms...


As far as the PS3 not making a dent.... over 9 million systems sold and it was released a year later than the other two systems. Like I said, it's nothing but illogical hatred for a company.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gljvd /forum/post/12694056


Well they can drop the price on the disc and offer disney 650m to switch sides.


650 m is how much it took sony to win over warners after all

Funny. I've been reading that no money was offered. I'll look for a link if you want.
 

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"PS3 is hardly making a dent compared to 360 or Wii"


I believe the world wide numbers show Wii kicking everyone's gaming behind.
 

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Well with this news, Blu-Ray currently holds 70% of Hollywood exclusivity. And with already over 9 million Blu-Ray players on the market (PS3's mostly, who actually buy a LOT of BD movies) there is no chance in hell for HD-DVD.


EDIT: to the guy above. Yes, I agree competition is good...but since when is the only competition between formats? Once this is all over, instead of Sony and Toshiba fighting, it will be ALL the companies making Blu-Ray players lowering costs and creating competition amongst themselves. Think about it...there is only one DVD format, and obviously its no monopoly.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_K /forum/post/12686653


Since it's impossible to keep up with this thread, apologies if this has already been discussed:


Doesn't Toshiba's press release seem to imply that they think Warner has breached some legal agreement with Toshiba or with the HD DVD group?


One would imagine that both sides would have lawyers sharp enough to make this impossible.

From the Toshiba press release:
TOKYO, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.' decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of HD DVD.


That pretty much says it outright: there are legal contracts in place for Warner to continue support of HDDVD.


From the Variety Article on Warner's Blu Shift :


The shift doesn’t go into effect until June 1. Sanders [Ron Sanders, President Warner Home Video] said the studio will continue to release HD DVD discs until May 31 to honor its previous commitment to that format’s backers, then switch to Blu-ray only on the high-def front.



That would seem to indicate that those contracts are up as of June 1.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dentalrep /forum/post/12693882


Whatever makes people sleep at night....How about Blu-ray is the HD leader and showed their dominance in sales. Warner went with the better format in sales and technology.


I can't argue that this move is probably the eventual death blow to HD DVD.


However, I simply cannot agree that a format that trumpets more aggressive DRM to be the 'better format in technology'. DRM is anti-consumer, no matter how you spin it, and BD clearly has used this as one of its lures for the media suppliers.


It is unfortunate that the vast majority of consumers neither see nor understand the gradual erosion of basic usage rights.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k /forum/post/12694015


It's an all out war already, that's why I'm curious about the counterattack - this Waner move is BIG so expect something BIG from the HD DVD camp...

Here are your choices for HD-DVD: Toshiba or Venturer. A mid-level brand and a bargain basement name nobody really knows about and hasn't proven itself. I bought the HD-A2 for $98 like so many others. Show me 3 new mainstream manufacturers (not dual format) and I will then start believing in HD again. No hardware company looks to be getting into the market at all. If you hear of one more company making HD-DVD players, then we can start talking. No counter attack will make any difference outside of major manufacturing news in the way of hardware. With the wide adoption of AVC camcorders and that working without much worry in the BLU camp, I don't see HD-DVD keeping its head above water.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dentalrep /forum/post/12693882


Whatever makes people sleep at night....How about Blu-ray is the HD leader and showed their dominance in sales. Warner went with the better format in sales and technology.

Keep in mind though that there have been a TON of buy one get one sales this season and the majority of them have been Blu-Ray. This more than likely has skewed the numbers towards Blu-Ray in 2007. I know I, like many others, probably bought titles I normally wouldn't have because of this. When these sales stop, I wonder if sales will be as strong? Given that Warner said they are evaluating the situation this year, it's no surprise that the BDA subsidised a bunch of these sales that included Warner titles.
 

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"I am sorry but I disagree. Digital downloads require two things which are not pervasive yet: very high speed broadband and connectivity of a box to your TV which can display the media."


Sorry bob but these are already in place. And you left out a piece. The piece you left out is the compression/expansion technlogy. Compress on the "send" side, expand on the "receive" side in a way that does not impact quality of either audio or video.


All of this is in place.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephShaw /forum/post/12694164


From the Toshiba press release:
TOKYO, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.' decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of HD DVD.


That pretty much says it outright: there are legal contracts in place for Warner to continue support of HDDVD.


From the Variety Article on Warner's Blu Shift :


The shift doesn’t go into effect until June 1. Sanders [Ron Sanders, President Warner Home Video] said the studio will continue to release HD DVD discs until May 31 to honor its previous commitment to that format’s backers, then switch to Blu-ray only on the high-def front.



That would seem to indicate that those contracts are up as of June 1.

Yeah, they mention that on Time Warner's site.

Quote:
Warner Home Video will continue to release its titles in standard DVD format and Blu-ray. After a short window following their standard DVD and Blu-ray releases, all new titles will continue to be released in HD DVD until the end of May 2008.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle_JP /forum/post/12684839


Does the near-ubiquitous presence of standard DVD mean that Toshiba controls everything now?
It's a forum, and lots of studios and manufacturers belong. Look it up.

And yet Sony and Panasonic are the only major patent holders. The others CEs are just following the Alpha Dogs. Make no mistake, just like DVD+R, Betamax, SACD, Memory Sticks this is another attempt by Sony to confuse the marketplace with their crap. How does this corporation get away with it?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehaser /forum/post/12693984


It must be some sort of illogical hatred of Sony for you to say that. There are 4 very viable and vibrant game systems that exist. XBOX, PS, WII, and PC. None of them are "losing" they are all doing just fine and have numerous games avialible on each that sell well and are enjoyable to play. They will all sell well up to the point that the next generation of systems come out.

No, the PS3 is a losing game system. For proof just look at Sony's last financial reports and all the red ink their gaming division racked up. Plus the fact that they went from the clear / dominant market leader in the previous console generation to a distand 3rd place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn22 /forum/post/12693986


What facts do you base that statement on? Blu-ray has always had at least as good a chance to become the next mainstream media format as HD-DVD had. I don't understand why you guys think the way you do sometimes, the logic is completely missing from your statements.

My "facts" come from the much more limited market BD is based on. The vast majority of BD players in the market are game consoles. That means 1. - the vast majority of those were purchased primarily to play games, not watch movies and 2. the demographic of "gamers" is by no means representative of the demographic consisting of "dvd consumers". Gamers are but a small slice of that larger market.


The installed base for HD-DVD on the other hand primarily consists of stand alone players. That means those two issues don't apply to this format. People who bought HD did it specifically to buy and watch movies, and they more closely represent the larger AV market.


If BD wins it's a blow to HDM. Universal acceptance of both and inexpensive dual format players would be a much better, consumer friendly outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobpenn /forum/post/12693989


I am sorry but I disagree. Digital downloads require two things which are not pervasive yet: very high speed broadband and connectivity of a box to your TV which can display the media. I do agree that disks are doomed eventually once everyone has high speed internet, and I mean very high speed. But with the dial up users still numbering I have heard 35%+ we're a way from that point.


The PC to TV convergence has also not taken off. So it will be a bit of time before someone makes it easy to connect the two systems. Most people just don't have internet near their TV.


But we're really talking about the next 3-4 years, and during this period, it seems clear to me that the disk storage format will prevail. Disks offer immediate access to media, where downloads by today's standards have bandwidth issues. People want to go home and put the disk in the player and see the movie. They want to take the disk on the road so their kids can watch it. And they want it simple: put it in and hit play. They don't understand how to connect the internet to their TVs for the most part.


So if you're waiting for downloads to replace disks, it'll be awhile. In the meantime, you're punishing yourself by not being able to enjoy the media.


I am pretty sure that HD disks will succeed, because the players will go down to $100 and the media will get cheap once this war settles down. There will be no reason at that point for people to reject the media and stay with DVD. It'll be like HD broadcast TV ... it's there, it doesn't cost any more, so why not?

Nah, you've missed the boat. Read this post, digital distribution is already here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/12694060


"My plan B if HD-DVD dies is digital downloads."


"DVD will suffice until downloads become viable."


Not dissing the posters but I don't understand why it is that folks simply forget to acknowledge we are ALREADY doing this. Satellite direct TV, digital hd cable, etc., are doing precisely that. There is no waiting for this to come into play. It already IS in play.


There is just one more step needed to be fully hd. Right now I can watch 1080i with a very high quality dolby digital sound track for movies, sports, etc., with my little old hd digital cable box. The final step to go to 1080p with hd audio can not be all that far away. I'm sure it could be done now but this board-room argument between what is more profitable: more channels or less channels with full hd video/audio : has not been settled. Although it looks like DirectTV has decided and is moving toward full HD. Not exactly sure they are 100 percent sure but it sure looks that way. My in-laws have DirectTV while I have Cox cable hd digital box.


So please consider that the wait for d/l highdef content is OVER.

Exactly. Even though I am in the HD-DVD camp, I still watched PotC: At World's End in beautiful HD in my HT. How? HD OnDemand at a cost of $3.99. I will just drop support for HDM completely and go the all digital route. Eventually I would get a VuDu or something like it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozer42 /forum/post/12694150


I don't understand all the 'woo hoo's and cheers for the 'war' being over.


Guys, whether you're a blu fan or an HD-DVD fan, the war being over hurts all of us, and every potential HD consumer.


The war has driven prices down, both on the players and the media.


Competition is good.


Once the war is over, Sony can jack up their piece of the pie even more and there's nothing anyone will be able to do about it. Blu players and media are already hideously expensive compared to HD-DVD, and this certainly won't give them incentive to drop prices, why would they if they're the only game in town? And now they'll need even more money to pay back their bribes to Fox and the other companies.


Personally I'm just glad to have had available not one, but two solid HD formats for my choice over the past couple years, and at attainable prices.


Just think if AMD went out of business? Intel would start slacking yet again, jack up their prices, slow down their processor releases, and the consumers would be hurt. The 'war' between AMD and Intel has been HUGELY beneficial to the consumer! You can get mad, MAD fast dual core processors for under $100 these days. You can get entire laptops from Dell for $400-$500 and pretty well loaded. Desktops for $527 with a 20 inch flatscreen and an all in one printer!


That's what competition does for us, and that's what we're losing if the 'war' is actually over.


This is not a victory for any consumer, there's no reason for cheering or celebration.


F you warner brothers.

Well, the "war" between AMD and Intel is totally different than this BD vs. HDDVD. This is a war like the HP Integrity vs. the IBM System P.


Many of the HDTV consumers are sitting on the sidelines waiting for High Deifnition media to take hold. Guess what, it wasn't. With only 1 - 2% of the media being sold being HD, the format war had to end.


Now that it appears to be ending, the "war" can now be between Sharp, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, et. al. trying to get their players into homes. This can only drive prices down as more and more people can now get into the High Definition media market. This would be more like the AMD vs. Intel war.
 

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This article at Variety spells it all out with quotes from actual named Warner execs instead of speculation.


Lots of interesting quotes, namely that they believed there needed to be an end to HDM format confusion because their research shows people aren't buying DVD's because they are holding out for an HDM winner, and people aren't buying HDM because they are holding out for an HDM winner.
 

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I think this competition argument is a tired one. Sure in the beginning it was good to drive prices down and quality up but that has run it's course and now two formats only hurts mass adoption. We all need to turn our focus to how we can get Blu-Ray to be the best format it is capable of and into mainstream adoption.
 
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