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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a ‘heads up’ warning to all forum members regarding “Projector Peopleâ€, and one of their sales people, A.J. Abrams.


Short Story: A.J. contacted me privately and offered to send me an Optoma H55 projector. If I didn’t like it, I could return it as long as no more than 4 hours were on the bulb. He wrote that he’d give me a full refund.


The projector exhibited major rainbow artifacts. I put no more than 3.5 hours of the unit and returned it per instructions. Then low and behold I discover, 3 weeks later, that I’ve been hit with a 15% restocking fee. Projector People did not respond to my initial inquiry. When I tracked down “A.J.†he said the projector had 11 hours on it and was cosmetically scratched. This simply is not true! No way, no how. Most telling, several follow-up e-mails to A.J. in an attempt to resolve this problem have been ignored, so I’ve been forced to dispute the charge with my credit card company. I checked with Alan at AVScience before posting this warning.


A.J,. posts to this forum, but often does not identify himself as a representative of an on-line dealer. He appears to have started the interest in the H55 by posting rave reviews. He sounded credible, but used the forums resources (i.e. my private e-mail address) to directly sell a product.


Be warned.
 

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For what it's worth, I believe that *this* is the type of blatant dishonesty that prompted Alan to split the forums.


It's tales like this one that increase my cynicism toward salespeople in general. It's sad really... it's always been my desire to give everyone the benefit of the doubt in any transaction until proven otherwise. It's really disturbing when someone proves to be a "weasel", out to make a buck at any cost. They only succeed in making my cynical hide even thicker. :( What a shame.


John, I hope this issue will be resolved shortly.


Ken
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks, Ken

How odd that, once I posted to the forum, I received an e-mail from "A.J.". It's just a coincidence, no doubt. Of course he is denying everything. Sadly, no one can "prove" anything at this point. I suspect this will be an expensive lesson (a $659.95 penalty), but I should have known when the salesman contacted me outside the forum. I should also have checked previous posts from A.J. and realized that his "review" of the H55 was not the review of a consumer, but rather from someone trying to sell the machine. Now I expect you'll next be reading an indignant "response" from Projector People. Just take it with a grain of salt.

Good Viewing,

John G
 

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Perhaps there is a win win situation that can be negotiated out of this. The sales guy offers to rescind the penalty and you promise to delete the thread.


Cheers
 

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Johng….


Although I can’t address your issue with AJ, let me relate my own experience with Mr.Abrams.


I was in the market for a projector a month ago, and, being impressed with his knowledge as conveyed on this forum (as well as being cognizant of the pretty good reputation of Projector People), I sought him out for advise.


At the time, I was on the verge of returning a Panasonic projector I had purchased elsewhere. I had determined I would buy instead the Sanyo PLV-60HT, which Projector People and AJ carried. And I mean I was determined to buy it right then and there on the phone. Credit card ready, relationship established, I said “buy it†to AJ.


Before accepting the order, AJ probed as to my motivation in returning my several day old projector (which again, I had bought elsewhere).


Well, what was to have been a 2-minute phone call to order a new projector turned into a 25 minute discussion/education in the pros and cons of making that swap. Through his quizzing, he made me realize that the far cheaper Panasonic projector I bought elsewhere was far more suitable to my needs than the much more expensive projector that I wanted to buy from him.


As a result, he talked himself out of a sale and in the process saved me a good amount of money and headache. I can’t be any happier today with my Panasonic 711XU!


I don’t know if your experience with him is an anomaly.


I can only tell you that I have found him to be more than fair.


And let me remind forum members that as there are usually two sides to every story, please withhold judgement of any person or firm unless all sides of an issue are aired.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Folks,

I would LOVE to delete this thread. Yes, there are two sides to every story. Wolfgang has related a positive experince, and I'm glad it worked out for him. What makes this particular situation difficult is the fact the retailer failed to notify me when they received the projector back in what they say is a "used" condition. I, too, felt Mr. Abrams was knowledgeable. At the same time, I think it is only fair to forum members that retailers posting to the forum clearly identify themselves up front when posting a "review" of products that most forum members have not seen.


Unless some startling new development occurs, I'll "sign off" on this thread. My intention in posting was to give a 'heads up' to forum members so they can proceed with caution. Some times a deal that is "too good to be true" turns out to be just that. Sadly, it is virtually impossible for forum members to actually see all the projectors being written about. That's why this forum is so valuable, and why it is important for those who post to let us know, up front, of any potential bias or motivations. The Optoma H55 has potential, but the rainbow artifacts killed the deal for me.


Before closing, I should add one thing. While waiting for the RMA from Projector People, I contacted Optoma directly about the rainbow artifacts. I received several replies, both from sales and engineering. They seemed genuinely concerned and wanted me to run some tests on the machine. I'd already boxed it up by that time, so I couldn't do as they asked. Though this particular projector wasn't acceptable for me, I was very impressed with Optoma's quick and sincere response.


Thanks all & Good Viewing,

John G
 

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…You can tell it’s a dead day on Wall Street when I spend my afternoon reading AVS…


Johng…Your complaint about AJ Adams, as I read it, is that he did not identify himself as a retailer.


Hmmm. In which of his posts did he hide that fact?


Was it in this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=optoma, where he gives his email address as ProjectorPeople.Com?


Or was it in this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=optoma, where he provides a lengthy shootout of projectors viewed by himself and his SALESMEN?


Or was it this one, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=optoma, where he says he just received 50 Optima projectors?


As a senior member, you surely are aware that AVS removed handles that identified the company people worked for (when it was a competing projector company). Prior to implementing that rule, I remember seeing dozens of posts from AJ Adams under the handle “Projector Peopleâ€.


Seems to me AJ Adams not only did not hide the fact that he was with Projector People, but he was completely upfront about that as well.


I can understand having a grievance about how your return was handled. But alleging that you had no clue about the identity of this mysterious AJ Adams, is a bit hard to believe.


I, for one, have benefited from Mr. Adam’s contributions to the forum. It would be a loss to the forum if he were now understandably reluctant to further share his insights with us due to the accusations of members that may be promoting their own agenda,
 

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Ok now here is the truth of the matter.


A. John Graves was never contacted privately. He did a quick quote on Projector People site and was contacted in direct e-mail from there. He then informed me he was a AVS forum member and was interested in the unit. I have all the e-mails to back this up and will post them if necessary.


B. The machine received was obvioulsy placed upside down on a hard surface and scratched numerous times. I saw this for myself. John admitted in e-mail form that he did in fact try and ceiling mount it and may have put a scratch on the unit. Again I have all e-mails to prove what I am saying.


C. John was contacted within 12 hours of every e-mail he ever sent. Again I have all e-mails to back this up


D. John stated directly in e-mail that if I didn't bend to his wish that I remove the restock fee, he would inf act bash us on this site. Again I have the e-mails to back this up


E. I would ask and tell anybody that if you damage a projector you should take resposibility for it. We have delt with MANY AVS forum people before and have had returns form them before . Every one of them will tell you we do not behave in such a matter.
 

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I see this thread turning ugly fast.


What I don't understand is that Alan approved posting of this thread without (I'm making an assumption here), hearing AJ's side of the story. I hope that is not the case, as that would be patently and inherently unfair. :(
 

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Actually they did allow this post without hearing from me first. And there are ways of proving the truth of the complaint. Again we save all e-mails.


Here is Johns original response to our standard e-mail response from quick quote inquires on our site. As you can see, this was NOT anything to do with AVS forum. Take eveything else with a grain of salt as well from his post.



Hello AJ,

I'm still looking, and trying to decide whether the Optima 55 is worth a try

or whether I should wait for the new DWIN. Obviously the price difference is

significant, but if I can get a good price on the Optima, it might be worth

a try.


FYI, I'm currently running a Davis DL-S8 and use a Crystal Image Scaler v

2.0 with it. Am I correct to assume I would continue to use the C.I. with

the Optima?


Thanks,


John Graves

J.Garland Communications


-----Original Message-----

From: AJ Abrams - PP [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 6:35 AM

To: ******

Subject: Projectors



It seems that you have been looking into getting a computer projector. I am

following up to make sure you found everything ok. Please send me an email

response with one of the following


A) I am still looking

B) I bought somewhere else

C) Because you seem like a cool guy, I want to place an order.



If you choose A or C I will throw in Free three day shipping. If you bought

somewhere else, please let me know and tell me what I can do to get your

business for next time.


Have a great week and hope we can do business



AJ Abrams

Senior Account Rep/Product Analyst

Projector People

1-800-639-3010 X2289



Notice that none of this was to his e-mail here at AVS


[Just removed johng's e-mail address]
 

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AJ,


Sorry you got put through this, and I hope it doesn't dissuade you from continuing your valuable and appreciated postings.


Thanks
 

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Thanks Noah, It's very hard to make these kinds of decisions. I wished to god it didn't happen this way, but what is a company to do when it happens? We can't change policy because we are threatned.
 

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Please post the correspondence or info on your website that would have made the purchaser aware that the 15% restocking fee was possible.....Regardless of scratching, if there is not a posted disclaimer or a forefront discussion regarding this - it isnt a fair business practice. I am a distibutor/wholesaler myself with return priviledges in our product and we have never had such a policy so I am inclined to side with the buyer...Especially if its a "subjective" policy....


Dave
 

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D_olds


All the information is on our website and was stated in e-mail (again I have the e-mails to prove). If you've never heard of a fee for returning damaged goods, I have no answer for that. I can't think of any company on earth that would accept it. If you wish the e-mail's that talked about a restock fee, please contact me in private and I'll be happy to send them. The policy is VERY clear on the site and is not subjective. Damage is damage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
OK, I wasn't going to post further to this thread, but since A.J. decided to quote e-mails from me and included my private e-mail address....


Look folks, there is a dispute. A large part of it deals with the specifics of the transaction. A.J. has accused me in private e-mails of attempting to "threaten", "bully", and use "strong arm tactics" (his words) in order to get the return of a 15% re-stocking fee. This is not true. His company never notified me that it found any problem with the projector upon its return. I can publish all the e-mails I received from A.J. which back up my side of the story, but at this point it seems like a waste of time. My intention in starting this thread was simply to give a "heads up", not start a public "He Said/She Said" debate regarding the specifics of this transcation.


Because A.J chose to publish my e-mail address as part of his response, and because this has become an argument which cannot be resolved in this venue, I've asked the moderators to close and/or delete this thread.


...and I'm still hoping to replace my venerable Davis DL-S8 which, based upon this thread, is looking better and better by the minute :)


Good Viewing All,

John G
 

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Because the e-mail I put on the post proves that your original statement was incorrect about how you contacted me? Please do close the thread. I think it's now very clear.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by D_Olds
Please post the correspondence or info on your website that would have made the purchaser aware that the 15% restocking fee was possible.....

Dave
http://www.projectorpeople.com/projectors/testdrive.asp


Looks pretty cut and dry to me, although I can't comment on any particular arrangements that AJ and John had in and above standard policy.
 
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