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According to the latest update at Mark Schubin's website, we willl be getting both versions of copy protection!


5C will be used for RECORDING while DVI/HDCP will be used for DISPLAYING.


This is ridiculous. Another example of not having a "winner" but trying to satisfy both parties...at the expense of the consumer.


I am trying to imagine how the consumer will hookup his/her equipment.


A STB will have to have both Firewire and DVI. One for recording and one for just display. So a monitor will also have to have both. Or will a VCR have Firewire input and DVI output?


Confusion abounds!


Lee

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by LeeAntin:
5C will be used for RECORDING while DVI/HDCP will be used for DISPLAYING.


This is ridiculous. Another example of not having a "winner" but trying to satisfy both parties...at the expense of the consumer.


I am trying to imagine how the consumer will hookup his/her equipment.


A STB will have to have both Firewire and DVI. One for recording and one for just display. So a monitor will also have to have both. Or will a VCR have Firewire input and DVI output?


Well, this is a moving target; in the few months that I have been around the HD world things have changed a lot.

I don't think there's now any confusion; the 5C copy protection will prevent folks from making any number of dubs of a HD movie that they record via the STB, connections through firewire. I have no problem with this but I know that others legitimately dub D-VHS copies to backup movies they wish to keep and will find this constraining.

For first-run movies and special PPV events there'll be DVI connection from the STB to the TV. Again, I have no problem with this since this will almost certainly only relate to new services that we currently haven't seen; the idea of viewing a first-run movie in the comfort of my home sounds cool to me.

Personally, I think the chances of CGMS be invoked for anything aside from new services in our current STB's is nonexistent and I'm beginning to think that they'll still be usable for receiving HD for several years.



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If they have a companion brain cell for the one they collectively share, the STB will have both connections and the recorder/player will only have 5C. This will reduce duplication in functionality between these devices, reduce cost, and probably adds some level of protection to their satanic scheme. Of course, this is all to the benefit of the consumer - so says their marketing collateral.



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Quote:
Originally posted by LeeAntin:
This is ridiculous. Another example of not having a "winner" but trying to satisfy both parties...at the expense of the consumer.


A STB will have to have both Firewire and DVI. One for recording and one for just display. So a monitor will also have to have both. Or will a VCR have Firewire input and DVI output?
You need both. Tranparent overlays are easy with DVI/HDCP and recording is easy with Fireware/5C. Which one do you NOT want to do well/cheap?
 

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Quote:
5C will be used for RECORDING while DVI/HDCP will be used for DISPLAYING.


This is ridiculous. Another example of not having a "winner" but trying to satisfy both parties...at the expense of the consumer.
No it is not ridiculous. Although I am against the anti-analog paranoia of the MPAA, I eagerly anticipate the firewire/DVI future (ignoring for now the copy protection portions).


DVI is an output technology analogous to a VGA or component output. Firewire is a communications bus analogous to Ethernet. In ten years or so, the rat's nest of wires behind your equipment will be replaced with firewire cables daisy-chained between boxes. DVI will be used to connect devices that can decode compressed digital signals to display devices that don't have a decoder.


In your VCR example, the VCR would not have DVI outputs. It would play back through the set top box, or if the TV has firewire, then directly into the TV.


In my signature, it is HDCP I am against -- not DVI.


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[This message has been edited by Larry Hutchinson (edited 07-31-2001).]
 

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I wonder if the 5C/HDCP license agreements even allow converting one to the other? In some ways they are still competing standards.


For instance if your STB feeds a display using DVI/HDCP but a recorder using 5C, can the 5C recorder drive the display with DVI? Or is that forbidden?


Will the display have to support both?


Curious. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif


- Tom


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One negative as I see it is that DVI cables aren't going to be cheap. And I wonder if they won't require some special DVI cables to keep you from tapping into the signal bleed or whatever. Personally, I don't have a problem with DVI per se as I have two video cards that support either natively or via adapters. Actually, one is DVI-D and one is DVI-I and then I have an ADC connector which requires a $200 adapter to plug into a DVI monitor. A VGA to DVI adapter costs around $40.


Firewire cables have gotten really cheap. I have three lying around that I don't use, though I notice Walmart still sells them for like $40. Most Firewire-capable devices come with cables, but it seems you have to buy cables for even component TVs.


Dennis


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