AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,139 Posts
Are we not theives...


We are Devo, D-E-V-O!


(NOTE: That's DEVO not TIVO!!!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,448 Posts
So we've got Craig Newmark and Shawn Hughes -- do we have a Keith Ogden, Glenn Fleishman and Phil Wright?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
354 Posts
Something that jumped out at me when I read the filing was that in it the plaintiffs are asking not only for a clarification of our rights, but also pushing the limit on what Sonic Blue intends for usage of the machines. Note that for the first two plaintiffs the filing specifically mentions the transfer of programming to their laptop computers for viewing. ReplayTV has not made that a possibility--AVS forum heroes have. If the court affirms our rights, then it will also affirm our right to use Replayer, SwapDV, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Funny this should come up... I recently emailed Replay pointing out that their FAQ answer saying that RPTV units couldn't download shows to PCs was slightly outdated to put it mildly given the success of SwapDV etc.


Their reply? Well obviously they couldn't be expected to *endorse* SwapDV, but they went further, implying that SwapDV was illegal, and comparing folks who used it to users of pirate copies of Windows and ripped-off DVDs!


This came from 'Dan' at Replay btw. When I asked him to enlarge on this astonishing slur, and pointed out that MOST corporations didn't call their most enthusiastic customers 'thieves' I was... yep you guessed it, told to refer any further questions to Sonicblue Legal dept.


Very very odd. Has Valenti bought them out and kept very quiet about it or something?


I also asked about the 45XX units, and exactly what they would and wouldn't do if you declined to subscribe to the EPG, and just used the unit to e.g. watch shows on a bedroom TV over the network from a 'master' 4320 in the living room. Their response? 'You'll have to address any questions about 45XX activation to Legal as well'!


Is this typical SB behaviour? Any of the Replay folks who have frequented these boards in the past care to comment? I think it's a great product, and I've spoken highly about the company to those who have asked. No more! **** them and the horse they rode in on.


Mike, annoyed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
627 Posts
I was bored so I read the legal complaint for declatory relief.


Bottom line the complaint askes the court to clarify the following (translated into English):


1. Owning a Replay 4000 is lawful

2. Time shifting is lawful

3. Commercial Advance is lawful

4. Sharing content (free broadcast and pay TV) between units in your own home or to a computer you own is lawful

5. Sharing content (free broadcast only) with other people is lawful as long as you don't get paid for it.


I think the EFF and their lawyers made a tactical mistake by highlighting people's usage of SwapDV type programs.


For example the complaint says that Craig Newmark "wants to use the advertised features that would allow him to view recorded programs on his laptop computer while travelling." [I guess I missed those advertisements.] The complaint also says that Shawn Hughes uses his ReplayTv to send shows "between his units abd his laptop computer for viewing outside his home." Highlighting this activity is a red herring that will certainly serve to muddy the real issues of the case-- can we time shift, can we skip commercials automatically and can we share shows with other people.


Otherwise I thought the complaint was OK. Interestingly, the compaint names ReplayTV/Sonic Blue as a defendant as well (vaguely threatening them with potential damages should they downgrade the units' functionality in resonse to the entertainment industry law suit.


Here is a link to the complaint itself: http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/Newmark_...complaint.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
627 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by abaduck
Well obviously they couldn't be expected to *endorse* SwapDV, but they went further, implying that SwapDV was illegal, and comparing folks who used it to users of pirate copies of Windows and ripped-off DVDs!
As much as I think SwapDv is a great program-- I think its existence will prove a real problem for SB in their lawsuit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,448 Posts
local streaming isn't a named issue in any of the lawsuits. IANAL and don't know if it could be amended/added, but as it stands now it's beside the point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
The industry fuss about CA is foolishness.


All they have to do is use a more sophisticated way to schedule and transition to commercials.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Robbo



As much as I think SwapDv is a great program-- I think its existence will prove a real problem for SB in their lawsuit.
You have a point Robbo, in as much as the Gnutella feature could be spun that way... but 1. it isn't SwapDV that's on trial and 2. There is still the defence (for both RPTV and SwapDV) of 'substantial non-infringing use' as per Betamax - given the (I suspect) relatively high ratio of 'shows copied locally'/'shows shared via Gnutella' that shouldn't be too hard to substantiate.


Ironically I suspect that the evidence the networks want to force RPTV to gather via usage monitoring (a Very Bad and Wrong Thing) would probably be very favourable to RPTV on this point (a Good Thing).


None of the above excuse the mildly slanderous line taken by RPTV in the email I described, strongly implying that SwapDV was simply illegal, and its users were pirates and thieves. Don't speak that way to your best customers, RPTV!


Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by abaduck

This came from 'Dan' at Replay btw. When I asked him to enlarge on this astonishing slur, and pointed out that MOST corporations didn't call their most enthusiastic customers 'thieves' I was... yep you guessed it, told to refer any further questions to Sonicblue Legal dept.
Do you think Sonicblue would actually acknowledge a third party application like SwapDV on FAQ? Dream on!

To be on the safe side, customer care is doing the correct action to refer to Sonicblue legal dept.

Quote:
Originally posted by abaduck

Is this typical SB behaviour? Any of the Replay folks who have frequented these boards in the past care to comment? I think it's a great product, and I've spoken highly about the company to those who have asked. No more! **** them and the horse they rode in on.
I would find it silly if SB acknowledges that their users are thieves. Have you asked Apple about their FAQ on the existence of Windows version of Music Application to work with IPod?


I am not surprise that you are likely to spread rumor that Apple accuses all its IPod users who dare to make IPod work with Windows as thieves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,068 Posts
it probaby wasn't the greatest idea to email SB about this.


as with the drive upgrades, etc. it's probably better to let sleeping dogs lie. They haven't done anything yet to stop their users from using their devices to the fullest extent, so why not leave it alone? They obviously can't acknowledge or endorse all of these grey area usages due to legal issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,043 Posts
I don't think that they did this because they wanted to. Given the lawsuits against them, I think that they were forced to do something to show that they are taking reasonable steps to prevent illegal distribution of material copied/encoded by the Replay boxes. Especially after Gnutella services were added to SwapDV. While SwapDV is a great program, all of the talk of editting to DVD and trading files is definitely troublesome for Sonic Blue in the context of the litigation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
702 Posts
While I agree that SwapDV muddies the issue for the MPAA lawyers, it doesn't muddy the issue for me. I'm not a thief for using video extraction to watch videos on my laptop on the plane. While I think that the gnutella addition was probably inflammatory, I think the sharing of shows is not a crime either if they were freely broadcast. Just because the industry hasn't figured out a good way to charge advertisers for viewers of PVRs (even if you skip some or all commercials, there are still product placements etc) doesn't mean the courts need to support them. Obviously broadcasters haven't grasped that there's a large desire to be able to watch tv when and where the consumer wants to rather than as dictated by the broadcasters.


I joined the EFF today (been meaning to for a while. This effort finally got my butt in gear)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
702 Posts
By the way, as a result of learning how great a community this place is, I've convince my company to work on supporting one for our industry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,068 Posts
I hadn't heard about gnutella being added to SwapDV. I think that was probably not a wise move, since it will be a lightning rod for attention to the application. Without the addition, SwapDV could claim that all its uses (archiving, expansion of storage, in-home redistribution, etc) were covered under fair use. Now that is not the case, even if they remove it now.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top