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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, great forum! I've been lurking and lurking trying to get the best setup for my first home theatre audio setup. 99% of use will be day to day TV watching and HD movies (Bluray). Music is almost a non consideration.


I should point out that the price is roughly the same for these two systems:

Wharfedale

Front: Diamond 10.1

Centre: Diamond 10CS

Surround: DX-1 satellite http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/Products/Product/tabid/78/PID/268/CID/270/language/en-GB/Default.aspx#detail

Rear - DX-1 satellite

Subwoofer - SVS PB-1000

Klipsch http://www.klipsch.com/high-definition-theater-600-home-theater-system

Front: HDT 600 satellite

Centre: HDT 600 centre

Surround: HDT 600 satellite

Subwoofer: SVS PB-1000


Firstly, which is the better system. Please try to justify your response if possible. I am interested in 7.1 as I want this to be a bit of a set and forget setup which will hopefully last for many years. I prefer the look of the Wharfedales for whatever that factor may be worth



There is zero ability for me to audition either system from where I'm currently located unfortunately.


If you don't think the upgrade to the SVS PB-1000 subwoofer is worth it please advise as I believe the included Klipsch subwoofer is quite good? http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-klipsch-hd-theater-600-51-speaker-system?page=0,3


It would save me >$650 too if I just used the included Klipsch


Fire away and thanks for the help!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Also which would be a better receiver for the wharfedale 7.1 setup, a Denon 2113CI or a Yamaha RX-V673?


Given the front/centres have such different frequencies to the rear/surrounds, I thought the denon as it would allow seperate crossovers to be set. True?
 

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That Klipsch sub in that HTIB set is not in the same league as the SVS PB-1000. Huge difference in performance.


Small speakers with tiny drivers like the Klipsch set will not perform as well as the Wharfedales. They can't produce midbass, and have to rely on the sub to do that. Much better to go with the Wharfedales for a fuller, richer sound.


I like the Denon receiver better because of Audyssey MultEQ XT room correction which will EQ the speakers AND the sub; most other room correction software only EQs the speakers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfimbul  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23254713


Bugger, the DX-1s are 4 ohm which the denon doesn't support


Any suggestions?

If you want an alternative set to look at, Ascend Acoustics makes some great speakers for HT usage. The CBM-170 SE for the front left/right, CMT-340 SE center, and then HTM-200 SE would make for a nice setup. Ascend is an Internet direct speaker vendor, so very good value.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbboy  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256239


And how big a difference does this make? I ask because the Denon is really expensive locally (lots more than the VX-R673). So if you had a choice out of those two amps you'd take the Denon?
OK. If it's substantially more, I wouldn't worry about it. Put your money into the speakers and sub

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbboy  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256239


Not really an option in my neck of the woods. I LOVE the look of the Diamonds as well... Embarrassing I know!

I didn't catch that you were down under. The Diamonds do look nice. And here, people that buy them are very satisfied with the money they spent. I'd go for it
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23254725


That Klipsch sub in that HTIB set is not in the same league as the SVS PB-1000. Huge difference in performance.

I thought not but still considered it reasonably decent? In any case, the Wharfedales seem to be getting the big nod so I'll probably end up with them. Still a few things to decide if you don't mind sticking around to help out!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23254725


Small speakers with tiny drivers like the Klipsch set will not perform as well as the Wharfedales. They can't produce midbass, and have to rely on the sub to do that. Much better to go with the Wharfedales for a fuller, richer sound.

Good to know. Almost universal view in this thread so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23254725


I like the Denon receiver better because of Audyssey MultEQ XT room correction which will EQ the speakers AND the sub; most other room correction software only EQs the speakers.

And how big a difference does this make? I ask because the Denon is really expensive locally (lots more than the VX-R673). So if you had a choice out of those two amps you'd take the Denon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23254731


If you want an alternative set to look at, Ascend Acoustics makes some great speakers for HT usage. The CBM-170 SE for the front left/right, CMT-340 SE center, and then HTM-200 SE would make for a nice setup. Ascend is an Internet direct speaker vendor, so very good value.

Not really an option in my neck of the woods. I LOVE the look of the Diamonds as well... Embarrassing I know!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23254754


I'm a big fan of Wharfedale Diamonds

A +1. Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badouri  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23254765


Buy Diamond 10.0 or 10.1 instead.

Budgets my good man, budgets! Despite me saying that, this is likely what I will wind up doing. But it'll probably be the Diamond 10sr. They have a listed frequency response as low as 70hz. That would permit me to set a crossover of 80hz globally and be OK I imagine?


I'll be ceiling mounting the surrounds and rears and routing the ceiling to install some 12AWG wiring the filling it back in with the wire insitu. Any forseeable issues?


So the remaining questions are:


1) Diamond 10SR or 10.0 for surrounds/rears? Bearing in mind the 10sr are cheaper and I'll be ceiling mounting them, not wall mounting. I can't find a review for the 10sr anywhere!

2) Denon 2113 (more expensive) or Yamaha RX-V673 (cheaper). It should be noted the australian denon is different to the US one. Check out this page for the specs I would be getting. http://www.audioproducts.com.au/ProductInfo.aspx?pid=AVR2113BK

3) Everyone happy with the SVS PB-1000? It's just a shade under $700 here...



I must admit to having a bit of a Yamaha tendency. Not even sure why. Buying it locally and cheaper has a role to play here too...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256250


OK. If it's substantially more, I wouldn't worry about it. Put your money into the speakers and sub

Well it is locally. I can actually import it for less than the cost of the Yamaha though. I'd rather buy locally for warranty purposes but if it's a lot better, I'll just risk it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256250


I didn't catch that you were down under. The Diamonds do look nice. And here, people that buy them are very satisfied with the money they spent. I'd go for it

So I could set the crossover to 80hz with this setup? The 10sr seem to be the weakest link.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfimbul  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256266


Well it is locally. I can actually import it for less than the cost of the Yamaha though. I'd rather buy locally for warranty purposes but if it's a lot better, I'll just risk it.

So I could set the crossover to 80hz with this setup? The 10sr seem to be the weakest link.

Audyssey can make a difference. Subwoofers sometimes need as much EQ help as the speakers do. So what Audyssey will do is try to smooth the in-room response of the sub so that it's flatter.


I believe that Denon receiver should let you set the crossover differently for the left/right, center, and left/right surround pairings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256290


Audyssey can make a difference. Subwoofers sometimes need as much EQ help as the speakers do. So what Audyssey will do is try to smooth the in-room response of the sub so that it's flatter.

Interesting. And it's a lot better than Yamaha's YPAO RSC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256290


I believe that Denon receiver should let you set the crossover differently for the left/right, center, and left/right surround pairings.

It does but I'm assuming I can set it globally to 80hz and be done with it if I get the 10sr for rear/surrounds. The only disadvantage of the Denon that I can see is that it can't power 4ohm speakers. Not an issue now but future proofing is part of why I'm choosing this setup. The Denon also doesn't permit 4K upscaling (the Yamaha does) which might matter down the track (though it probably won't as my HTPC will likely upscale with a graphics card upgrade when the time comes and passthrough will be all that is needed)


Which provides the better sound? 2113 or RX-V673?


RX-V673 got the whathifi product of the year award for 2012! Probably swaying me a little...
 

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The Yamaha 673 has a universal crossover whereas the Denon has separate crossovers for the front, center and surround speakers.


So if you have different size speakers with the Yamaha its going to set the crossover based on the smallest speaker. For instance with small satellites as surrounds it may set the crossover at 100hz or 120hz even if your larger fronts should be crossed over at 60hz or 80hz.


Plus the Denon with Audyssey MultEQ XT will EQ the subwoofer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256386


The Yamaha 673 has a universal crossover whereas the Denon has separate crossovers for the front, center and surround speakers.


So if you have different size speakers with the Yamaha its going to set the crossover based on the smallest speaker. For instance with small satellites as surrounds it may set the crossover at 100hz or 120hz even if your larger fronts should be crossed over at 60hz or 80hz.

Will that matter with the speaker setup I've planned out? Surely I'll just set it to 80hz and be done with it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256386


Plus the Denon with Audyssey MultEQ XT will EQ the subwoofer.

I must admit I know little about EQing but you guys make it sound very important!


Aside from the 4ohm thing, is there any disadvantage of the Denon? I understand it has less input options but that doesn't really concern me, everything I own (or intend to purchase) has HDMI output anyway (except for my wii but who cares.)


It is cheaper but warranty would be a huge PITA if it has a fault.
 

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Quote:
Will that matter with the speaker setup I've planned out? Surely I'll just set it to 80hz and be done with it?

if you get the DX1 surrounds they only go to 120hz so there would be a gap between 80hz - 120hz for the surrounds. if you get the D10sr you should be okay since they can go down to 70hz.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256555


if you get the DX1 surrounds they only go to 120hz so there would be a gap between 80hz - 120hz for the surrounds. if you get the D10sr you should be okay since they can go down to 70hz.

How reliable are the manufacturers stated specs?


I can't find any independently verified data on the Diamond 10sr unfortunately



The DX-1 matched up with this review though perfectly so I'm guessing Wharfedale can be trusted? http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-wharfedale-dx-1-speaker-system?page=0,2
 

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No way to know for sure how accurate the posted frequency responses are without a lab measurement.


when you run YPAO it'll set the crossover accordingly. More than likely the 10sr or DX1 will have the highest crossover point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23256666


No way to know for sure how accurate the posted frequency responses are without a lab measurement.


when you run YPAO it'll set the crossover accordingly. More than likely the 10sr or DX1 will have the highest crossover point.

The Denon has Audyssey MultEQ XT (not XT32). Still superior to YPAO RSC?


Given we don't know the true frequencies of the 10sr, maybe the Denon is the safer option so I get the flexibility of crossover adjustments.
 

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single point measurement on the 673 and still only one crossover for all speakers.


I'd still take Audyssey Mult EQ XT over YPAO.
Quote:
The Denon has Audyssey MultEQ XT (not XT32). Still superior to YPAO RSC?

i dont think I ever said the 2113 had XT 32. I own multiple Denon receivers so I'm pretty familiar with Audyssey setup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt  /t/1470292/wharfedale-diamond-10-1-7-1-or-klipsch-hdt-600-5-1#post_23257115


single point measurement on the 673 and still only one crossover for all speakers.


I'd still take Audyssey Mult EQ XT over YPAO.


i dont think I ever said the 2113 had XT 32. I own multiple Denon receivers so I'm pretty familiar with Audyssey setup.

Haha, I didn't say you had! I was just clarifying my question (as much for myself as anyone else) so it wasn't ambiguous


Seems the overwhelming majority in here prefer the Denon 2113 over the Yamaha RX-V673. I'm really being swayed by the hordes!
 
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