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I just recently went from a standard 27" TV to a Panasonic 42" ED Plasma and just wanted to get some feedback on what type of cables are performing best for you?


I replaced my old acoustic research best buy cables with Monster THX Ultra cables which should arrive sometime this week. Should I see an improvement with the upgraded s-video and component cables?
 

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Pickup a set of Acoustic Research cable at BB and see if you can notice a difference. IMO, if your eyes are really really good, you might notice a slight improvement.

There are tons of threads on premium cables and whether they're worth it.
 

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Should I see an improvement with the upgraded s-video and component cables?
Unless your current cables are very poorly made, you will not see an improvement.


I have the (expensive) test equipment necessary to evaulate cables, and the $6 component cables I tested were indistinguishable from the >$100 Monster Cable equivalents. Ditto for the S-video and DVI cables I tested.


When you buy expensive cables, you're paying for expensive marketing campaigns and the founder's next Ferrari, not better performance.
 

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I use Monster but not because of any perceived picture quality improvement. They were bought for the heavier-duty construction. Like Jerry stated, I doubt an improvement will be seen.


There are loads of threads on this subject and plenty of Monster bashing. To me, one can spend a lot of money on Monster or lot of money on something else. In either case a lot of money is being spent.


The "mirage effect" with high priced cables is very stong.


IMHO
 

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I completely agree with Jerry. Cables don't have to be name-branded or expensive to be good quality. However, beware of poor construction in cheaper cables, as Paul suggests.


I highly recommend Markertek ( www.markertek.com ) as a source for cables, connectors, etc. I work at a TV station so I knew about these guys previously. I figure if these cables are what broadcasters are using in their systems, they're good enough for my living room. :)
 

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I bought component cables at Walmart. I think they were Philips.

They had component cables for $15 (3 RCA's) and composite+audio

(3 RCAs) for $12 :rolleyes: . They were obviously the same cable with

different colors on the tips, so I bought the $12 composite+audio and

marked the white blue with a permanent marker ;)


The PQ on the new Zenith is awesome.


JP
 

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The use of high end cables for baseband audio signal paths is of questionable value, particularly if your don't have megabucks invested in your audio system. The same is definitely not true for analog HDTV signals, where you would like the 3dB rolloff point to be 100MHz or better. I use Monster M1000 cables for all my high bandwidth component video signal paths; I agree that it is expensive, but, IMHO, the result is worth the level of PQ I observe in my system. Your mileage may vary. :D



regards, billb....
 

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The same is definitely not true for analog HDTV signals, where you would like the 3dB rolloff point to be 100MHz or better. I use Monster M1000 cables
Bill,


I ran sweep tests on my Agilent network analyzer out to 2.5 GHz. This is much higher than the highest HDTV frequency, and 25x the frequency you mention.


The $6 component cables were indistinguishable from the >$100 Monster cables, even at 2 GHz. If you can "see" the difference in PQ between these two cables, I'd say you have a good imagination, or should have your eyes checked.


Much of this is psychological. In another post, I described an A/B test I ran with a friend. He claimed to see "significant differences" in the PQ between the cheap and expensive cables when I switched them. Trouble was, I didn't switch them at all--it was an A/A test, and he was claiming to see differences that couldn't be there.


If expensive cables float your boat, then go for it, it's a free country. Just keep in mind that you're enriching the pockets of the high-end cable maker, not getting better PQ.
 

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Originally posted by Jerry Gardner
Bill,


I ran sweep tests on my Agilent network analyzer out to 2.5 GHz. This is much higher than the highest HDTV frequency, and 25x the frequency you mention.


The $6 component cables were indistinguishable from the >$100 Monster cables, even at 2 GHz. If you can "see" the difference in PQ between these two cables, I'd say you have a good imagination, or should have your eyes checked.


Much of this is psychological. In another post, I described an A/B test I ran with a friend. He claimed to see "significant differences" in the PQ between the cheap and expensive cables when I switched them. Trouble was, I didn't switch them at all--it was an A/A test, and he was claiming to see differences that couldn't be there.


If expensive cables float your boat, then go for it, it's a free country. Just keep in mind that you're enriching the pockets of the high-end cable maker, not getting better PQ.
Jerry;


I appreciate your desire to provide technically accurate information, but, just a few points:


I don't have a pair of your unnamed $6 cables, so I can't tell you whether I see a difference or not. Tell me the brand & I will try a set in my system.


Although I mentioned frequency response in my post, you & I know that there is more than bandwidth to signal integrity - noise immunity of the cabling & connectors come to mind. I don't know what the back of your HT cabinet looks like, but mine is a seriously compromised environment where noise is concerned.


I have access to all the Agilent equipment one could ever want (I'm an analog IC designer for National Semiconductor), but I wouldn't bet money that it is simple to devise a test suite for HD video cabling that won't obscure or ignore significant differences between two cables (Maybe you could describe your test setup in more detail). I have a technician with 30 years + in microwave who could probably do a decent job, given a couple of days.


I am very aware of the psychological pitfalls involved in evaluating audio & video equipment; I use HDNet's test patterns and high quality programming stored on my HR10 to test cabling and other aspects of my video setup. Just because some people see things that are not there does not logically imply that everyone does.


I trust my eyes (and ears) to tell me if something is better or not; my advice for others is to do the same. If better cables don't blow your skirt, take them back & shop at Radio Shack. But keep an open mind; your setup may have problems which obscure incremental improvements that, in combination, can be very significant.


regards, billb....
 

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I don't have a pair of your unnamed $6 cables, so I can't tell you whether I see a difference or not. Tell me the brand & I will try a set in my system.
The $6.00 cables are here. (I have no affiliation with this company.)

Quote:
Although I mentioned frequency response in my post, you & I know that there is more than bandwidth to signal integrity - noise immunity of the cabling & connectors come to mind. I don't know what the back of your HT cabinet looks like, but mine is a seriously compromised environment where noise is concerned.
I checked for noise immunity, and again, the $6.00 cables are as good as the Monster cables. This is not rocket science, even though so many audio and videophiles make it out to be. It's not hard to make a decent cable from both an electrical and mechanical standpoint, and it certainly doesn't cost >$100 to do so. Most of that goes into all of the advertising and hype campaigns.


I'll put together a description of my test methods and equipment (along with photos) when I get some time.


Have you done double-blind testing? If not, then I would be willing to bet that there is bias creeping into your evaluations. Even the so-called "experts" who write for the high-end audio and video magazines (and who should know better) regularly get bitten by this. Someone once did a double-blind test where they compared a $3000 stereo interconnect cable to a straightened coat hanger, and 6 out of 10 "expert" audiophiles preferred the coat hanger.


What I especially find funny are the people who spend hundreds or thousands on expensive cabling, and then feed their displays with crappy, overcompressed signals full of motion and compression artifacts.
 

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I did buy Belkin's newly introduced line of cables called PureAV Silver Series. I saw it at a tech show a couple of months ago. They look to be of the same caliber as the Monsters but at a fraction of the cost. I bought a 4 foot component cable for $29. I'm trying to convince my cousin to let me compare it against his $100 Monster Cable but so far he has refused. I guess he's afraid that he'll look foolish for spending that kind of dough on a cable if the $29 Belkin model does just as well.
 

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I tested AR component cables vs. Monster cables 3 feet shorter and roughly 3 times more expensive. Neither myself, my wife, nor my friend could see a difference in PQ. I returned the Monster cables and stuck with the AR cables.


The best bet would be to do your own blind test, BB has a 30 day return policy on opened cables, feel free to use that to test your cables. :)


-JR
 

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Originally posted by jcc
I did buy Belkin's newly introduced line of cables called PureAV Silver Series. I saw it at a tech show a couple of months ago. They look to be of the same caliber as the Monsters but at a fraction of the cost. I bought a 4 foot component cable for $29. I'm trying to convince my cousin to let me compare it against his $100 Monster Cable but so far he has refused. I guess he's afraid that he'll look foolish for spending that kind of dough on a cable if the $29 Belkin model does just as well.
My experience is that Belkin cables are very high quality; it is unlikely that you will see a difference between these cables and most Monster offerings (possible exception, the M1000), even on an above average video system. I think Monster will eventually have to adjust pricing to avoid loss of market share. The gross margin on their high end offerings is probably in the 80% range; competitors willing to accept 50% margin for similar quality are gong to eat their lunch if they don't adapt.


BTW, that's a very good price you got on your component cable; Belkin's MSRP is $69.99.



regards, billb....
 

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I agree -- the Monster "m" series cables are atrocious expensive. $350 MSRP for a 4m HDMI cable?! Yeah, right. Plus, monster is confusing consumers with so many levels of performance.


Not to bash on Monster but can someone explain to me the difference between?:


1.) Monster THX Ultra 1000 Cables


2.) Monster "M" Series Cables


3.) Monster "Z" Series Cables


4.) Monster "Sigma" Series Cables


Ching, ching, ching ... Have you ever looked at the prices on the sigma line??! $1500 MSRP for RCA Audio interconnects. What planet are we on again?!
 

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Originally posted by Jerry Gardner
The $6.00 cables are here. (I have no affiliation with this company.)


I checked for noise immunity, and again, the $6.00 cables are as good as the Monster cables. This is not rocket science, even though so many audio and videophiles make it out to be. It's not hard to make a decent cable from both an electrical and mechanical standpoint, and it certainly doesn't cost >$100 to do so. Most of that goes into all of the advertising and hype campaigns.

Aha! I've got you now! These are actually $7 cables (thought I wouldn't notice the price structure, eh?).


Seriously, these look to be a very high quality offering at that price point; the gross margin must be extremely low. I do doubt that they are the equal in every respect of the M1000 series, but I'll bet your point that they are more cost effective is accurate. My perspective on pricing comes from being in a manufacturing business. If I design a product that is essentially a "sole source", I have no qualms about asking 90% or better gross margin; hence my lack of resentment toward those who do likewise. Monster are no longer in such a position, and it is clear that they will have to adjust or suffer. If they are smart, most of that money has been going into their pockets, not into advertising.

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I'll put together a description of my test methods and equipment (along with photos) when I get some time.
I would appreciate a look at your test suite, if you have time to post it.

Quote:
Have you done double-blind testing? If not, then I would be willing to bet that there is bias creeping into your evaluations. Even the so-called "experts" who write for the high-end audio and video magazines (and who should know better) regularly get bitten by this. Someone once did a double-blind test where they compared a $3000 stereo interconnect cable to a straightened coat hanger, and 6 out of 10 "expert" audiophiles preferred the coat hanger.
The technical problems associated with devising accurate double blind tests are well known. My training and experience as an engineer have taught me to be skeptical of all conclusions, especially those to which I feel emotionally attached (emotion based decisions can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, in an R&D setting). I still believe that an open mind and a willingness to accept new data are the most powerful defense against wishful thinking. Reviewers in the magazines you cite are, by and large, the least dependable sources of information imaginable, as they are beholding to their advertisers on a grand scale. And I think that interconnects that cost thousands of dollars are among the least likely of audio upgrades (along with $1000 power cables and cryogenically treated wall sockets :D) to be cost effective.

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What I especially find funny are the people who spend hundreds or thousands on expensive cabling, and then feed their displays with crappy, overcompressed signals full of motion and compression artifacts.
I could not agree more; I believe that the most dependable sign that a particular audio or video system is nearing "nerdvanna" is when it reaches the point where it can distinguish an excellent source from a good one. After that, improvement tends to be incremental and difficult to achieve, though not necessarily expensive or impossible.



regards, billb....





(edited for spelling)
 

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Originally posted by SushiSeeker
I think we should cut these Monster Cable users a break. Many are

probably sports fans and appreciate the fact thier cable $ is helping

to sponsor stadiums:

http://www.monstercable.com/press/


JP
Unfortunately, those dollars are also paying the army of lawyers Monster uses to sue everyone in sight for using the word monster in their business. I find this far more distasteful than their pricing or marketing strategies, and most likely to steer me to other sources of cabling in the future.



regards, billb....
 

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Originally posted by bbroach



BTW, that's a very good price you got on your component cable; Belkin's MSRP is $69.99.



regards, billb....
I think you're quoting the longer cables. The 4 foot component is $33 undiscounted at CDW.


You guys should be all over it!
 

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Originally posted by jcc
I think you're quoting the longer cables. The 4 foot component is $33 undiscounted at CDW.


You guys should be all over it!
http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV_det...duct_Id=178479


4ft. - 1.2m.. ...AV51000-04... ..$ 69.99


Like Bill said, that's a good deal, and obviously Belkin's MSRP is ridiculously inflated. Of course, the cables from PC are still way cheaper.
 

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Originally posted by jcc
I think you're quoting the longer cables. The 4 foot component is $33 undiscounted at CDW.


You guys should be all over it!


I took that number for the 4' cable on the Belkin website. Their MSRP is sure to be more than their suppliers' price, given usual practice by OEMs. With these guys available at CDW for $33, I'll be sure to try them out.


regards, billb....
 
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