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I have to pick some up for my Rotel 1066/1075 combo, what do you guys recommend?
Mark
Mark
What cables do you recommend for connecting a Pre/Pro and amp?
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I like my Outlaw interconnects, and they are pretty reasonable. www.outlawaudio.com
Parts Express also has several reasonable IC's to choose from, or you can make up your own.
Parts Express also has several reasonable IC's to choose from, or you can make up your own.
Don't let anyone tell you that cables don't matter, because they do... you are connecting over two thousand dollars worth of epuipment; they deserve to be connected with quality cable. Your ears, and the goal of enjoying your preferred source material to the fullest extent, deserve similar consideration.
Really good interconnects can be found for from 30 to 50 dollars per one meter length... a few names that come to mind are Nordost, Straightwire, Kimber, and Audioquest; you can also go for some of the internet-order-only companies like Bettercables, Rhino, or Blue Jeans. All three make cables with quality parts, but with less overhead than the others.
(If you can go with .5 meter lengths, you can get a higher-grade cable for your money).
You can make your own if you are really handy with a soldering iron, but if you don't like them or if you mess up, you can't re-sell them or return them to the manufacturer... you're on your own.
There is a form on fatwyre.com that you can fill out with your system info (with the option of choosing your price range), and they will usually get back with you in a day or two with recommendations. They have a cable-auditioning program, but I have always hesitated to use it, since your deposit is non-refundable (but it does go towards the purchase of cables).
A caveat: not all components are going to reveal the benefit of quality cables, and not all cables go well with all components... I have Klipsch speakers - with bright or revealing source material and components, silver interconnects are excruciating. I would classify Rotel components as neutral to mildly warm-sounding; if your speakers are similarly warm, silver interconnects might work well; but if your speakers are a little on the bright side (like Klipsch), you would most likely want to stick with copper.
This is just an example of how frustrating it can be to decide on an interconnect... there are so many variables, and the synergy between components,along with the consideration of the sheer number of possible combinations, is staggering to contemplate.
One further note: Do yourself a favor, and remove the name "Monster" from your list of cable candidates... they are as over-rated as Bose, and the muddiest-sounding of the name-brand cables I have auditioned.
Best of luck, and please don't let the cable naysayers (the ones who take pride in what they feel to be their "horse-sense") prevent you from enjoying the benefits of better cables.
Really good interconnects can be found for from 30 to 50 dollars per one meter length... a few names that come to mind are Nordost, Straightwire, Kimber, and Audioquest; you can also go for some of the internet-order-only companies like Bettercables, Rhino, or Blue Jeans. All three make cables with quality parts, but with less overhead than the others.
(If you can go with .5 meter lengths, you can get a higher-grade cable for your money).
You can make your own if you are really handy with a soldering iron, but if you don't like them or if you mess up, you can't re-sell them or return them to the manufacturer... you're on your own.
There is a form on fatwyre.com that you can fill out with your system info (with the option of choosing your price range), and they will usually get back with you in a day or two with recommendations. They have a cable-auditioning program, but I have always hesitated to use it, since your deposit is non-refundable (but it does go towards the purchase of cables).
A caveat: not all components are going to reveal the benefit of quality cables, and not all cables go well with all components... I have Klipsch speakers - with bright or revealing source material and components, silver interconnects are excruciating. I would classify Rotel components as neutral to mildly warm-sounding; if your speakers are similarly warm, silver interconnects might work well; but if your speakers are a little on the bright side (like Klipsch), you would most likely want to stick with copper.
This is just an example of how frustrating it can be to decide on an interconnect... there are so many variables, and the synergy between components,along with the consideration of the sheer number of possible combinations, is staggering to contemplate.
One further note: Do yourself a favor, and remove the name "Monster" from your list of cable candidates... they are as over-rated as Bose, and the muddiest-sounding of the name-brand cables I have auditioned.
Best of luck, and please don't let the cable naysayers (the ones who take pride in what they feel to be their "horse-sense") prevent you from enjoying the benefits of better cables.
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I prefer Rhino or Blue Jeans over BetterCables, otherwise agree with Chuck all the way!
DanielM,
I have read reviews of Paradigm speakers which err on their being a little on the "warm" side. I have to admit that my own experience with Paradigm is limited to a couple of auditions in a home theater dealer setting; in fact I have heard them with the same Rotel combo you have listed.
Having said that (and I would welcome a response from actual Paradigm owners, given my own limited experience), I would not characterize Paradigm as sounding bright. If anything, I would say the system I have heard is a little on the warm side. Of course, there are other factors to consider when hearing (or reading) one person's opinion... the room acoustics of the audition, the source material, even the mood of the listener at the time can affect one's perception of sound.
Again, it would be nice if opinions from actual Paradigm owners would be brought to light...
I have read reviews of Paradigm speakers which err on their being a little on the "warm" side. I have to admit that my own experience with Paradigm is limited to a couple of auditions in a home theater dealer setting; in fact I have heard them with the same Rotel combo you have listed.
Having said that (and I would welcome a response from actual Paradigm owners, given my own limited experience), I would not characterize Paradigm as sounding bright. If anything, I would say the system I have heard is a little on the warm side. Of course, there are other factors to consider when hearing (or reading) one person's opinion... the room acoustics of the audition, the source material, even the mood of the listener at the time can affect one's perception of sound.
Again, it would be nice if opinions from actual Paradigm owners would be brought to light...
Quote:
LOL, you've got a great sense of humor.
The poster should understand that the money spent on cables is purely pride of ownership. I'm all for quality cables within reason, say twenty or thirty bucks for a well made interconnect, but if you want to improve the sound, you will have as much luck by polishing the brass spades on your equipment plugs.
| Originally posted by chucklee Best of luck, and please don't let the cable naysayers (the ones who take pride in what they feel to be their "horse-sense") prevent you from enjoying the benefits of better cables. |
The poster should understand that the money spent on cables is purely pride of ownership. I'm all for quality cables within reason, say twenty or thirty bucks for a well made interconnect, but if you want to improve the sound, you will have as much luck by polishing the brass spades on your equipment plugs.
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303 Posts
Chuck,
THanks for the great response. Very informative! I own the Paradigm 9's and CC-300, and would classify the sound as extremely bright with the Yamah 992 I owned and mildly bright with the Denon 5700. With the Rotel sperates, they were not bright at all, very smooth. I think the interconnects that I was using during the demo were silver.(AudioQuest)
THat being said, the prices I am finding on 1 meter cables are anywhere from $69 a pair to freaking ridiculous. I am just not certain what cables I need that will not HURT the sound of the Rotel separates. Yes I do want great sound, but at a reasonable price. I was finding 1 m cables for $1200 and up! I just don't see spending more than $300 on 5 cables.
I will check out Rhino and blue jeans.
Thanks again guys, 1st venture into separates.
Mark
THanks for the great response. Very informative! I own the Paradigm 9's and CC-300, and would classify the sound as extremely bright with the Yamah 992 I owned and mildly bright with the Denon 5700. With the Rotel sperates, they were not bright at all, very smooth. I think the interconnects that I was using during the demo were silver.(AudioQuest)
THat being said, the prices I am finding on 1 meter cables are anywhere from $69 a pair to freaking ridiculous. I am just not certain what cables I need that will not HURT the sound of the Rotel separates. Yes I do want great sound, but at a reasonable price. I was finding 1 m cables for $1200 and up! I just don't see spending more than $300 on 5 cables.
I will check out Rhino and blue jeans.
Thanks again guys, 1st venture into separates.
Mark
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303 Posts
Ordered cables from Outlaw Audio. Seemed like decent quality and decent price. Ordered Copper. Thanks again guys!
Mark
Mark
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2,763 Posts
Buy them second hand at Audiogon.com. Most cable resellers are enthusiasts who have barely had them a year, and cables don't get lots of wear and tear. You'll get a much better cable at the same price as those very decent cables mentioned above. I suggest Harmonic Technology if you need a warm, but accurate sound, and Acoustic Zen if you want all the sound, and nothing but the sound. Good luck.
Best Buy? Harmonic Tech's Truthlink.
Best Buy? Harmonic Tech's Truthlink.
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3,755 Posts
Well Mark, you could have spent more, so you didn't waste too much money. OTOH, you could have gotten the Dayton Audio cables from PartsExpress for about 1/3rd of what you paid for the Outlaws and they sound the same. But that's not too many dollars different and the Outlaw cables look nice, are solidly constructed & sound as good as $100 or $300 or $1000 cables. So all in all, I think you did pretty good.
To be truthful, you showed better wisdom than I as I went down the path of buying many expensive audiophile cables before coming to my senses. At least I did do what was suggested above, I bought most of them used and saved about 60-70% off of original list (which ran in the $200-$400 range for some of them).
I do like the RCA jacks used in the Outlaw cables. Very solid. Appear to be exactly the same as those sold by www.ac4l.com as their ATS Gold 2X and 3X series cables, for about half of Outlaw's cost. These are better than some of my expensive cables in overall construction quality.
Tom B.
To be truthful, you showed better wisdom than I as I went down the path of buying many expensive audiophile cables before coming to my senses. At least I did do what was suggested above, I bought most of them used and saved about 60-70% off of original list (which ran in the $200-$400 range for some of them).
I do like the RCA jacks used in the Outlaw cables. Very solid. Appear to be exactly the same as those sold by www.ac4l.com as their ATS Gold 2X and 3X series cables, for about half of Outlaw's cost. These are better than some of my expensive cables in overall construction quality.
Tom B.
Joined
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6,058 Posts
Some more good and fairly cheap cables.
These RadioShack ones were well recommended, haven't tried them yet.
Fusion AV Cables
Sam Tellig in Stereophile recommended the HT130 Pro by AR.
I bought 3 sets for analog outs from my DVD player.
So far they sound very nice. ~$20 a set.
I too have spent some fairly large dollars on interconnects.
They certainly sound nice but I think your cable dollars are better spent
on nice speaker wire as they have a harder job to do.
HTH
These RadioShack ones were well recommended, haven't tried them yet.
Fusion AV Cables
Sam Tellig in Stereophile recommended the HT130 Pro by AR.
I bought 3 sets for analog outs from my DVD player.
So far they sound very nice. ~$20 a set.
I too have spent some fairly large dollars on interconnects.
They certainly sound nice but I think your cable dollars are better spent
on nice speaker wire as they have a harder job to do.
HTH
I recommend anyone buying cables read this white paper by Roger Sanders at Innersound. You will find it under Accessories/Cables:
http://innersound.net/main.htm
That said, I was impressed with the quality of Blue Jean cables:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/
You can also get high quality custom made cables at very low prices at Markertek.
Dsmith
http://innersound.net/main.htm
That said, I was impressed with the quality of Blue Jean cables:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/
You can also get high quality custom made cables at very low prices at Markertek.
Dsmith
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3,755 Posts
Pretty good common sense white paper.
When I said before that one can get interconnects for $10 that sound as good as $1000, I should have added the caveat that it is indeed possible to design an interconnect that sounds different, by altering the very parameters discussed in this white paper. I usually add this caveat but neglected to above.
My standard position is while it is possible to purchase interconnects for $5 to $10 that are extremely accurate to the source, it is also possible to spend a lot more to get cables that are less accurate. Some might like the colorations induced by such cables.
Tom B.
When I said before that one can get interconnects for $10 that sound as good as $1000, I should have added the caveat that it is indeed possible to design an interconnect that sounds different, by altering the very parameters discussed in this white paper. I usually add this caveat but neglected to above.
My standard position is while it is possible to purchase interconnects for $5 to $10 that are extremely accurate to the source, it is also possible to spend a lot more to get cables that are less accurate. Some might like the colorations induced by such cables.
Tom B.
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I also purchased a set of component video cables from BlueJeans.
Since I live in the same town I was able to get a burrito while they were made up. For any future needs I'm gonna buy or borrow the crimpers and make them myself. It's too easy not to.
I've read the innersound article before, good stuff.
Since I live in the same town I was able to get a burrito while they were made up. For any future needs I'm gonna buy or borrow the crimpers and make them myself. It's too easy not to.
I've read the innersound article before, good stuff.
Quote:
Yeah, cables do matter, but a very inexpensive cable can be the "quality cable." As far as audio cables are concerned, I would save $$$ by buying at places like partsexpress.com a $10/ea interconnect with gold-plated RCA terminals, which should be just as good as any fancier cables. I will be listening if any of you can point out what is wrong with this approach. 
Now, when it comes to video cables, I would try to be much more careful.
I would rather spend my precious money on more CDs / DVDs.
| Don't let anyone tell you that cables don't matter, because they do... you are connecting over two thousand dollars worth of equipment; they deserve to be connected with quality cable. Your ears, and the goal of enjoying your preferred source material to the fullest extent, deserve similar consideration. |
Now, when it comes to video cables, I would try to be much more careful.I would rather spend my precious money on more CDs / DVDs.
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Hi sushi, you were very helpful to me regarding the LPX-500, hopefully I can return the favor.
To me, the audio part of the audio\\video equation is of equal importance to the video part. As with everything else, up to a certain price level you get what you pay for. The cost of a $10 interconnect will probably be split equally between parts and labor plus the profit margin.
My advice would be to up your spending limit a bit. This will get you better connectors and wire.
I've had a set of AR HT-130 interconnects for a while now and find them to be an excellent value. Retail is $20. You'll probably not find them selling at a discount. This tells me that the dealer cost is higher without much wiggle room. Pay attention to part numbers as AR makes a lot of different models.
I would not recommend buying cables at a big box store like Circuit City or Best Buy. Although their pricing is aggressive on other things, their cable pricing stinks. The best pricing for cables can be found online.
I've found accessories4less to have a wide selection of cables at all prices.
Their specials can be real steals.
acc4less
Radio Shack also carries a variety of cables at various prices. Check their website as the stock at individuals stores varies wildly.
If you're at all inclined, making your own cables is very easy. You can select the wire and customize the length. Although the initial investment in tools is a bit high, the cost of connectors and wire offsets this. If your video cables need a long run, making your own will easily pay for itself with this run alone.
Here's a good DIY site to start with:
DIY A/VCables
HTH
To me, the audio part of the audio\\video equation is of equal importance to the video part. As with everything else, up to a certain price level you get what you pay for. The cost of a $10 interconnect will probably be split equally between parts and labor plus the profit margin.
My advice would be to up your spending limit a bit. This will get you better connectors and wire.
I've had a set of AR HT-130 interconnects for a while now and find them to be an excellent value. Retail is $20. You'll probably not find them selling at a discount. This tells me that the dealer cost is higher without much wiggle room. Pay attention to part numbers as AR makes a lot of different models.
I would not recommend buying cables at a big box store like Circuit City or Best Buy. Although their pricing is aggressive on other things, their cable pricing stinks. The best pricing for cables can be found online.
I've found accessories4less to have a wide selection of cables at all prices.
Their specials can be real steals.
acc4less
Radio Shack also carries a variety of cables at various prices. Check their website as the stock at individuals stores varies wildly.
If you're at all inclined, making your own cables is very easy. You can select the wire and customize the length. Although the initial investment in tools is a bit high, the cost of connectors and wire offsets this. If your video cables need a long run, making your own will easily pay for itself with this run alone.
Here's a good DIY site to start with:
DIY A/VCables
HTH
Milt99,
Yeah, I know what you mean, and actually, the AR is the interconnect brand that I currently use (which I bought from partsexpress.com a long time ago). So, take my "$10" as a symbolic adjective rather than literally. BTW, the audio is extremely important for me, too, who is a big fan of classical music. In fact, until I bought the projector this time, I have always been a stereo-only music lover, not an HT person at all. And I love my System Two speakers made by now-defunct Hales Audio.
Anyway, my main point is, as you can guess, any cable that costs significantly more than those decent "budget" ones are simply an unfounded HYPE or MYTH. All you will get with them is the big-pride-of-ownership factor; you will NOT hear the difference if you are properly blinded, unless the cable or the terminal is actually defective, period. Of course, for many people the pride-of-ownership factor itself will have a huge psycho-acoustic impact. So for them the money is well spent, I guess... And that is the mechanism how the "high-end" fancy cable industry operates so well.
Yeah, I know what you mean, and actually, the AR is the interconnect brand that I currently use (which I bought from partsexpress.com a long time ago).
So, take my "$10" as a symbolic adjective rather than literally. BTW, the audio is extremely important for me, too, who is a big fan of classical music. In fact, until I bought the projector this time, I have always been a stereo-only music lover, not an HT person at all. And I love my System Two speakers made by now-defunct Hales Audio.Anyway, my main point is, as you can guess, any cable that costs significantly more than those decent "budget" ones are simply an unfounded HYPE or MYTH. All you will get with them is the big-pride-of-ownership factor; you will NOT hear the difference if you are properly blinded, unless the cable or the terminal is actually defective, period. Of course, for many people the pride-of-ownership factor itself will have a huge psycho-acoustic impact. So for them the money is well spent, I guess... And that is the mechanism how the "high-end" fancy cable industry operates so well.
Ahhh, "horse-sense".
I love it when people espouse their opinions in such definitive terms.
Here's another for you:
There IS no "God", "creator", or sign of intelligent design of the Universe. Anyone who says so is displaying their
A. lack of intelligence,
B. crippled mentality ("there just has to be a REASON for Everything"),
C. raving egomania ("humans are the reason the Universe was created, we are master of all life on Earth, and if there probably isn't life elsewhere, because God didn't say so").
I have thought all these things at one time or another, and consider myself to be atheistic to a point, but not to the degree that I would make such blanket declarations openly (and stupidly) about all people of faith.
(I am not saying that hearing a difference between cables is akin to faith and religion; my analogy is about mature and informed civility when making comments about one's own opinions).
As I have on one other forum, I will no longer be drawn into these foolish debates... I will make recommendations to people based on my own experience, but if someone else wants to drag out such a thread with unsolicited negativism, then I will not respond; merely shake my head and go on...
Sushi,
I am sure you are happy with your AR's, just as I am with my Nordosts, Kimbers, and Straightwires... and I LOVE the difference.
I love it when people espouse their opinions in such definitive terms.
Here's another for you:
There IS no "God", "creator", or sign of intelligent design of the Universe. Anyone who says so is displaying their
A. lack of intelligence,
B. crippled mentality ("there just has to be a REASON for Everything"),
C. raving egomania ("humans are the reason the Universe was created, we are master of all life on Earth, and if there probably isn't life elsewhere, because God didn't say so").
I have thought all these things at one time or another, and consider myself to be atheistic to a point, but not to the degree that I would make such blanket declarations openly (and stupidly) about all people of faith.
(I am not saying that hearing a difference between cables is akin to faith and religion; my analogy is about mature and informed civility when making comments about one's own opinions).
As I have on one other forum, I will no longer be drawn into these foolish debates... I will make recommendations to people based on my own experience, but if someone else wants to drag out such a thread with unsolicited negativism, then I will not respond; merely shake my head and go on...
Sushi,
I am sure you are happy with your AR's, just as I am with my Nordosts, Kimbers, and Straightwires... and I LOVE the difference.
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