[idividebyzero]

What do people set their subs at and why?


Is it a personal preference?


Are you strictly following a technical specification/calibration?


I would like more bass with talking and music and was wondering how people are setting up their subs. I feel like my sub is being underutilized which may be because the calibration set the crossover too low, my previous receiver got more lows out of the same sub giving a richer sound.

 

[cel4145]

This will help some: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/setting-the-subwoofer-lfe-crossover-for-best-performance

 

[Tulpa]

It depends on a number of factors, including the room acoustics and what speakers the sub is paired with, among others. A sub is ideally supposed to fill the room so the deep bass is everywhere. If the crossover is set too high, you start to get localization issues (you start hearing the sub from where it sits, rather than throughout the room.) If it's set really high, you could even get dialog coming from the sub, something it wasn't designed to do.


If it's set too low, and the other speakers can't dig down enough to compensate, then there's a "hole" in the frequency range of your sound.


My old receiver could go down to 60hz for a crossover, so I had my sub at that (my mains can get down to 35hz.) My new receiver only goes to 80hz, but I also moved to a new location, so the room is different. 80hz seems fine, though.

 

[Kach22]

I currently use 50Hz; I have tower speakers. When I had the RC Energy Micro 5.1 set, I used a crossover of 150Hz. It depends on your speakers.

 

[jb82]

with todays new recievers best to just let them pick it. The smaller the main speakers the more work the sub will have to do. they decide on your main speakers roll off frequency which is where it goes -3db. In my opinion its best to have main speakers that can go down to at least 120hz


like kach says i have currently jbl cs6100 and audyssey set them to 150 also. but it sounds good blends nicely

 

[cel4145]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jb82  /t/1420503/what-do-you-set-your-sub-crossover-at#post_22227638


with todays new recievers best to just let them pick it.

I wouldn't blindly follow the receiver. Many receivers set the crossover at wherever the receiver feels that the speakers are starting to roll off (and you might want to set it higher), and many set speakers to large/full range when they should be crossed over with the sub.


However, don't go below what the receiver comes up with. Audyssey, for instance, will not EQ the speakers below the low crossover point it determines.

 

[jb82]

"and many set speakers to large/full range when they should be crossed over with the sub." dont understand oh never mind got it. I wouldnt trust that auto calibration software then.


You generally want your main speakers to play down as low as they safely can why put it higher?

 

[cel4145]

Takes some of the load off your speaker and your mains if you use the sub instead. And your assumption is that the mains can produce the mid-bass/lower bass better. For example, I have two 18" sealed subwoofers. I cross them at 80hz. Why would I want the wimpy 6" drivers in my mains handling lower frequencies that the subwoofers can handle better

 

[jb82]

it will take strain off but no need to if its at roll off usually.


6 in can handle good low mids and add some punch to them.


An 18 at 80hz sounds good to me i dont know youre speakers roll off

 

[ccotenj]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jb82  /t/1420503/what-do-you-set-your-sub-crossover-at#post_22227992


"and many set speakers to large/full range when they should be crossed over with the sub." dont understand oh never mind got it. I wouldnt trust that auto calibration software then.


You generally want your main speakers to play down as low as they safely can why put it higher?

it can easily be argued (and backed by measurements) that your xover should be set as HIGH as possible... you really don't want your mains to play as low as they can (assuming you are talking about speakers that actually can play low with authority)... strictly from a room acoustics standpoint, that's generally the wrong approach (in addition to what has already been mentioned)...


a subwoofer is designed to do one thing... reproduce 3 (or more in some cases) octaves... let it do it's job...


virtually everyone should be setting their xover to at least 80hz, unless proven (by measurements) that a lower one would be better (and those cases are few and far between)...


as a "fwiw"... the rc software doesn't set the xover... it merely reports the -3db rolloff point to the avr, and it makes that decision... that decision isn't based upon a "correct" xover for proper integration, room modes, etc.

 

[jb82]

well im not disagreeing with the 80hz if u have floor standing speakers. Im sure 80hz would be better for sub. to handle


setting ur xover as high as possible that statement makes no sense at all. its all relative to ur main speakers. i have 3 inch drivers for sattelites and xover is at 150 definitely would not want it to go any higher sub would sound stupid that high. and if it was lower could damage speakers at high volume.


Audyssey takes in account the room acoustics thats what its made for that is usually good enough the roll off to set xover at. cant really argue with that


i never said at least i think i did not about letting a speaker play down to 80hz yeah thats def in sub territory there is no argument here

 

[ccotenj]

^^^


if you would like to learn what audyssey reaaly does, come join us in the audyssey and audyssey pro threads...


"as high as possible" did NOT imply "as high as it can be set"...

 

[Kach22]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1420503/what-do-you-set-your-sub-crossover-at#post_22228023


Takes some of the load off your speaker and your mains if you use the sub instead. And your assumption is that the mains can produce the mid-bass/lower bass better. For example, I have two 18" sealed subwoofers. I cross them at 80hz. Why would I want the wimpy 6" drivers in my mains handling lower frequencies that the subwoofers can handle better

If you did not have a sub equalizer or a sub with an already perfectly flat response, which is where many people are at, then setting the crossover higher can cause the higher range of bass to be louder than it should be and the low end to quiter than it should be. If you cross over lower you can get a flatter response from the sub since it is covering a smaller range.

 

[primetimeguy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kach22  /t/1420503/what-do-you-set-your-sub-crossover-at#post_22228884

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1420503/what-do-you-set-your-sub-crossover-at#post_22228023


Takes some of the load off your speaker and your mains if you use the sub instead. And your assumption is that the mains can produce the mid-bass/lower bass better. For example, I have two 18" sealed subwoofers. I cross them at 80hz. Why would I want the wimpy 6" drivers in my mains handling lower frequencies that the subwoofers can handle better

If you did not have a sub equalizer or a sub with an already perfectly flat response, which is where many people are at, then setting the crossover higher can cause the higher range of bass to be louder than it should be and the low end to quiter than it should be. If you cross over lower you can get a flatter response from the sub since it is covering a smaller range.

Not very good advice.  Your speakers could experience the same issues, boosting one frequency over the other because of the room and placement.  At least with the subwoofer you can change it's location to try and get a flatter response, while moving the speakers will change imaging and soundstage and usually isn't an option.

 

[jb82]

so if u have audyssey you should crank the xover the clibrations roll off.


kach22 and primetimeguy sum it up


audyssey apply's correction to sub at xover point



i think an 8in sub could handle the higher range bass frequencies ok but an 18 sounds good low low 80hz is not setting xover high

 

[Kach22]



Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy  /t/1420503/what-do-you-set-your-sub-crossover-at#post_22229028



Not very good advice.  Your speakers could experience the same issues, boosting one frequency over the other because of the room and placement.  At least with the subwoofer you can change it's location to try and get a flatter response, while moving the speakers will change imaging and soundstage and usually isn't an option.

True, but more people have the ability to equalize their speakers and could more likely correct the speaker response. I was just giving an example of why someone might want to use speakers over a subwoofer, I do not think this is ideal, but in some cases it may be a good option.


I use 50Hz because my towers can reproduce low frequencies down to around 40-50Hz very nicely and even though my 8" subwoofer also sounds good above 50Hz, even up to 150Hz, it is lacking at very low frequencies (its spec range is 36-180 Hz ±3dB). I can run MCACC with speaker settings locked, so by setting the crossover to 50Hz beforehand I was able to turn the subwoofers power up to twice what is was at with an 80Hz crossover without MCACC telling me the subwoofer is too loud (and it was), and this really seemed to squeeze some extra low end out of the subwoofer, even below its specified frequency range. I could have just bought a different subwoofer, but I already have this one and I was able to make it work for me; once I move and have a more legitimate home theater space, I will definitely upgrade.


I think the main thing to take away from this discussion is that there is no single way to know what the best crossover is for your setup, you need to try out different settings and find the one that sounds best.

 

[ccotenj]

^^^


have you ever measured your system?

 

[Kach22]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj  /t/1420503/what-do-you-set-your-sub-crossover-at#post_22231067


^^^

have you ever measured your system?

Not with anything besides MCACC. It has some "reverb" charts that it outputs which seem to just be the speakers frequency response charts, I never looked at them in too much detail, besides noting that they were flatter after calibration. It just seems to me that the very low frequencies showed up much more after the adjustments. I could take another look at the charts MCACC has and see if there is a SW graph; if not, what method would you recommend using to measure?

 

[bfreedma]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kach22  /t/1420503/what-do-you-set-your-sub-crossover-at#post_22232002


Not with anything besides MCACC. It has some "reverb" charts that it outputs which seem to just be the speakers frequency response charts, I never looked at them in too much detail, besides noting that they were flatter after calibration. It just seems to me that the very low frequencies showed up much more after the adjustments. I could take another look at the charts MCACC has and see if there is a SW graph; if not, what method would you recommend using to measure?

MCACC doesn't do anything below 63hz (you knew that, right?) so has almost no impact on the low bass output. The graphs are basically useless as well - you need something like an Omnimic or REW to measure your system to see what is really happening.

 

[Kach22]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma  /t/1420503/what-do-you-set-your-sub-crossover-at#post_22232220


MCACC doesn't do anything below 63hz (you knew that, right?) so has almost no impact on the low bass output. The graphs are basically useless as well - you need something like an Omnimic or REW to measure your system to see what is really happening.

Yes, I'm aware the equilizer only adjusts down to 63Hz, and it does not even have any equalizer adjustments for the subwoofer. MCACC does measure the subwoofer response but I think it is only for the purpose of auto-setup of the crossover and setting the SW channel level.


I did not think MCACC had anything to do with getting a lower frequency range out of my sub, but by forcing MCACC to adhere to the 50Hz crossover I was able to get its "approval" on the higher power setting on the subwoofer. I think due to my room's acoustics and subwoofer placement the higher frequencies were much louder at the listening position than the lower frequencies, requiring me to turn down the power to make the subwoofer blend well and sound good. By setting the crossover at 50Hz I was able to not only turn the subwoofer power up but also (not yet measured) cause the ±3dB range to move lower, to say maybe 30Hz - 55Hz while the crossover is in place.


I'm going to work on getting some proper measurements so I can get a better understanding of what is going on.