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Without the chroma upsampling design error the 3800 - along with the 9000 - could have been the first two DVD players to get so close to "finally getting it right" all in one package considering BOTH feature set and A/V performance.


With the chroma upsampling design error, I wouldn't touch either one with a ten foot pole at ANY price.
 

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It would be better to have separate Audio and Video ratings. My main interest is DVD-Audio, therefore I find the feature set attractive. The Chroma Bug is not an issue for me, but this is what is keeping the ratings so low.
 

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I agree about the chroma bug issue. I'm a fan of Denon and the Chroma Upsampling glitch is something that they SPECIFICALLY had to address after the debut of the DVD2800. Denon even went so far as to SPECIFICALLY mention the resolution of this problem on the Denon website. If they went with a less than perfect de-interlacing solution, but was PERFECT in every other aspect of performance, it might have been less of a PR debacle for Denon. The 9000, absent the chroma upsampling error + multi channel SACD via its analog outputs (not their DL) would have turned some heads and would have enticed many people to seriously consider it as the player to beat. Unfortunately, its not packaged that way and it may just end up being relegated as a solid DVD-A player and CD transport/player.


I honestly think that Denon should have spent a little bit more time in R&D to make sure that this issue was resolved. Introduction of the 5803 and 5800 upgrade was good. In fact the upgrade boards were delayed, yet, Denon obviously didn't feel the need to delay the 3800 and 9000- very uncharacteristic of them.

elbert
 

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Why should we even have to make excuses for Denon? If ESS can't provide an MPEG decoder chip without the chroma bug, then Denon should source their decoder chips from the same place that Panasonic does.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MM629
... then Denon should source their decoder chips from the same place that Panasonic does.
mmm...I believe Panasonic makes their own decoder man, and if I remember correctly, they normally won't sell it to another manufacturer unless they use a complete transport - hence the Denon 1600.



Btw, most players actually do have the chroma bug. So, considering this, the feature set, and specs of the player, even not having seen it in action firsthand, I find it very hard to believe that the player is below average. I'd probably guess it ranks as "good" to "very good"
 

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I became very intersted in this player for it's DVD-A capabilities, but I have no intention of keeping two DVD players because this is a chroma-bug-beast. :mad:


Shame on Denon, who I actually like, don't get me wrong. I totally agree with MM629, though, they should get ESS to mod their chip or get it from somebody else.


I hope DenonJeff sees this thread and takes this as a feedback to Denon.
 

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Quote:
they should get ESS to mod their chip or get it from somebody else.
I really wish people would stop bashing Denon when they don't have the facts and have no clue as to what they are talking about. ESS WAS SUPPOSED to have fixed the Chroma Bug. Denon worked with ESS to try and get it resolved, but ESS did not deliver.
 

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Well Craig, Denon did not know for sure if ESS was going to be able to fix the chroma bug, yet went ahead and told everyone at the CES show that the players would be chroma bug free, posted on their website that the players would be chroma bug free, and then said they couldn't fix it in time. The posts by DenonJeff said Denon engineers were working on it but decided not to delay them any further, so trying to save face for Denon is somewhat pointless. A lot of people spent a lot of time discussing these players as if they were the holy grail, yet Denon did not deliver on what they promised on either the 3800 or the 9000. This is not to say that they won't be good players, as they may well be. I cannot truly say as my opinion of the 2800 was that it was disappointing when compared to the RP91 or the 5700.


DBNyack,

Their are other players that do not have the chroma bug besides the Panasonic, such as the Kenwood 5700. They source their MPEG decoders from somewhere also.


There is no reason to blindly follow and assume that all of one companies products are good. These Denon players have been subject to an enormous amount of hype on this and HTF due to the promises made. Once again, they may well turn out to be excellent players, and I have not yet seen them, but there are others that are probably as worthy of our attention.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MM629


DBNyack,

Their are other players that do not have the chroma bug besides the Panasonic, such as the Kenwood 5700. They source their MPEG decoders from somewhere also.
The Kenwoods are using the Panasonic Mpeg2 decoder. For these current gen Denon players, I'm sure the only other option was probably to use the Mediamatics, which also meant they wouldn't be able to use the Si504 chip.


I don't want to justify the existence of the error in the players, as I too wished it wasn't present. However, I don't think the problem can be resolved as easily as you and many others think it could.


Also, as I remember, I thought the ESS chroma bug issue followed Craig's story - in which Denon was told by ESS that the new chips would be chroma bug free, but at the last minute, Denon was informed by ESS that they weren't able to completely fix it. However, according to DenonJeff, they are still working on it in hopes to have it resolved in the near future. I'm keeping my fingers crossed in hopes that they do.


I'm also in favor of stopping the Denon bashing too. I'd be surprised if their PR reps allow Jeff to even represent them on this forum now with threads that have been going on over this chroma bug in the new players. If this isn't so already, I hope we don't lose a valuable source
 

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I'm a fan of Denon and instead of bashing them, I do believe that I, and other Denon consumers should be allowed to express their disappointment in these players, even w/o seeing them. The reason being is the fact that the 3800 and 9000 do exhibit the chroma upsampling bug, which has been verified by both Jeff Talmadge and other forum members. Denon was well aware that the much anticipated 2800 fell short on overall video quality due to the huge impact that the chroma bug made on its overall video presentation. Simply tackling the deinterlacing aspect of performance wasn't enough and Denon LEARNED from these forums and their firmware updates on the 2800 that consumers will be keying in on the chroma upsampling error on the next generation of Denon dvd players and so they SPECIFICALLY Targeted their marketing on this issue as formally stated on the Denon website. Hence, we the HT enthusiasts and others that were among the first to find out about the 2800's chroma problems should be entitled to express disappointment with Denon on a KNOWINGLY failed attempt to bring their player's to the next level and eliminating the MAJOR FLAW that plagued their last model.

Elbert
 

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Truthfull the only major complaint so far with the 3800 is not the chroma bug, rather the over scanning issue I've encounterd. Truthfully, this may only be a localized defect (I'm awaiting a replacement). When in progressive scan mode the picture is smooth as silk, clear and and incredible. So I will reserve any true complaint until this current problem is resolved. Otherwise, the quality, both audio and video is wonderful. I;ve tested 5 dvd players within the last 8 months and even with the over scan issue (only in progressive) this is still the best player I've encountered to date.
 

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Scottbos


I have the toshiba sd 6200 and would like to buy a new player that would improve the picture quality I currently get with the 6200. I do not have a dealer near me with the 3800. Have you compared the Pioneer 47a with the 3800? Do you think either one would have better picture quality than my 6200?
 
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