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m. zillch

#### alan0354

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"With good knitting, using 10 of the 20 gauge wires, you can reduce the inductance even to 1/10 of a single big cable."

You are talking in hyperbolic terms about single wire self inductance, not 2 conductor cable inductance. Self inductance is a completely insignificant factor in comparison, and bringing it up shows a lack of appreciation and understanding of the electrical factors that actually can make a difference in an amp/speaker circuit. On any cable type or make we would even consider using for speakers, single wire self inductance is so tiny it is essentially zero impact. Its more like adding a grain of sand to beach, a teardrop in an Olympic swimming pool, etc. You can multiply it by 1000 or divide it by 1000 and it still is insignificant when it comes to audible impact in an amp/speaker circuit.

Saying something technical in a manner completely out of context of how it can effect speaker output, and with no indication of scale of impact, is utterly useless. These statements I read always exclude any explanation of exactly what the impact on sound output is. That is telling in itself.
You obviously have no idea what is engineering. You obviously don't understand the explanation I provided that is high school physics and you just closed your mind. I already present the calculation in post 26 here
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-channel-audio/3146930-tune-your-own-speaker-cables.html

Obviously you cannot comprehend that the inductance of a wire is 0.94ohm at 10KHz and you pretty much lost control of the speaker. But it's hard to lead the blind to the water if the blind refuse to move.

#### DanPackMan

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You obviously have no idea what is engineering. You obviously don't understand the explanation I provided that is high school physics and you just closed your mind. I already present the calculation in post 26 here
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-channel-audio/3146930-tune-your-own-speaker-cables.html

Obviously you cannot comprehend that the inductance of a wire is 0.94ohm at 10KHz and you pretty much lost control of the speaker. But it's hard to lead the blind to the water if the blind refuse to move.

showing calculations is not the same as demonstrating results and affect on actual audio output. Your 'calculations' show us nothing of use in that regard.

And, inductance in measure in henries, not ohms. "lose control' is not a unit or meaningful term at all. The entire circuit, not just one isolated piece out of the circuit, dictates results.

#### m. zillch

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From that letter from Paul McGowan. He (McGowan) disgusts me with this drivel:

"And, for the record, we only do blind listening tests on cables. We have one person who switches cables and listeners who judge them. Only the switching person knows what’s what. Double blind as you know it doesn’t work, a subject I’d be happy to elaborate on at some other time. But, blind measurements are a must.

As to your kind offer of public debate, I think I’ll have to pass but thank you for the opportunity. It’d be akin to a debate between political right and left wingers: both so entrenched in what they know to be true that nothing of value would result. Life’s too short for that.

I will suggest that we would dearly love to better understand how we can use the measurement tools we have to get to the bottom of why using transfer functions and differential measurements don’t help us relate what we hear to what we measure. We know those differences exist. We know measurements don’t currently show us what those differences are. We also know how much easier our design process would be should we figure out what is happening when we make those changes. In the meantime, we’re continuing to listen (taste) the end results of our design efforts.

Be well.

Paul McGowan"

Either he himself doesn't understand what the difference is between double blind* and single blind or he believes he can deceive people by making things up. I'm not sure which is the case here.

*Double blind simply means not only is the test subject (listener) not allowed to know the identity of the cable being listened to, the test administrator who switches the cables also doesn't know, so their body language, grimaces, and their verbal tone can't inadvertently relay the identities to the test subject(s) at a subliminal level either. For example, were they to say: "OK, now what do you think of the sound of this cable?" the accidental, subtle emphasis of the word "this" can subliminally influence the listener, theoretically, so the test administrators also need to not know the IDs of the DUTs [devices under test] to be sure this isn't an issue. This is an exceedingly easy to understand principle I would assume even young children could grasp, but apparently not Paul.

Mikkle and D Bone

#### Peja

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You guys always go down the wire rabbit hole when the real issue is the connections. It's all about leakage and cheap connections. If they leak it's a bear to clean up all the 0's and 1's that pile up on the floor.

#### DanPackMan

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You guys always go down the wire rabbit hole when the real issue is the connections. It's all about leakage and cheap connections. If they leak it's a bear to clean up all the 0's and 1's that pile up on the floor.

I do wonder why they don't include the audible differences in solder joints.

#### m. zillch

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You guys always go down the wire rabbit hole when the real issue is the connections. It's all about leakage and cheap connections. If they leak it's a bear to clean up all the 0's and 1's that pile up on the floor.
HA! Plus they are hard to pick up when they wiggle around because of all the jitter.

Peja

#### teetertotter

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Myself, I prefer speaker wire made in the USA, 2 conductor, twisted pair, bare copper, 99% oxygen free, shielded, jacket, UL listed.

I also prefer not using end plugs of any type. I do check every so often for screw tightness. I'm not to concerned about oxidation occurring at the terminals, with my exposed small set-up.

I am not that concerned with wire resistance, due the specific wire I am using, 8ohm speakers, and longest run is 20 feet both sides. I believe I am getting the best quality sound possible from my bookshelf speakers.

Its like HDMI cables. Is one 4k cable better than another of equal quality, in picture and sound??? It is all in what you prefer to spend?

#### m. zillch

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let's talk science of testing the best of the best speakers with one speaker,
To properly measure the frequency response of a speaker (be it with test instruments or the ear), the correct number of speakers to radiate sound into the room is one: otherwise if you foolishly use two or more you get nasty comb filtering which has nothing to do with the speaker itself but rather the spacing of the two which determines when and where the sound waves are constructive vs. destructive to each other:

One speaker (the Revel Salon):

#### m. zillch

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Mine? I did not invent nor own in any sense the ABX test protocol. Forum member Arny Krueger [RIP] however did, with others, and if I'm not mistaken he physically built the very first one.

#### twitch54

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Myself, I prefer speaker wire made in the USA, 2 conductor, twisted pair, bare copper, 99% oxygen free, shielded, jacket, UL listed.
interesting, I don't ever recall seeing speaker cable 'UL Listed' ?

#### m. zillch

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interesting, I don't ever recall seeing speaker cable 'UL Listed' ?

Here's an example.

I think it has to to with heat and fire safety. Like how thick the insulation is and how likely it will burst into flames with high current or a mishap of some kind.

#### m. zillch

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Everyone has different opinion and express their opinion. . . . As long as they don't challenge me, everyone can say their piece.

Ratman

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#### m. zillch

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interesting, guess I'm blind, I didn't see the UL listing on the packaging ?

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#### twitch54

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gotcha, thought I would have see the 'UL' on the packaging ........

#### m. zillch

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gotcha, thought I would have see the 'UL' on the packaging ........
I'd think so too.

I bet if you look closely at the non-detachable power cord to your AVR it will say UL too. Mine is at least.

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