[Dave C.]

Having placed a thread on the HTF i received no replies that could answer my question so i thought i would come hear.

I have one of Sony’s budget projectors (vpl-cx1) and would like to know is what exactly the 16x9 mode does on the 4:3 projector for DVD’s that are anomorphic (16x9). Does the projector take advantage of the additional lines available as a result of such DVD’s or is it merely re-formatting the DVD correctly and not taking advantage of the additional lines. In addition what do the more expensive projectors do that are ‘true 16x9’ for anomorphic dvd’s


Sorry If I have not described it very well but it’s the best I could do Thanks for any help.

 

[TotallyODD]

I'll take a crack at it


A 16:9 mode in a digital projector means that the projector is capable of performing the anamorphic squeeze. In other words, you can tell your dvd player to ouput to a 16:9 display and the projector will take of rest.


While it doesnt use anymore pixels on the projector, it can produce a better image (fewer artefacts) if your dvd player doesn't do a good job at squeezing the picture.


See this thread which just popped up: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...threadid=88526


Todd

 

[Dave C.]

Thanx for the post. i always have my dvd player set to 16x9 as i have a ws tv also.

Ok let me get this straight What you are confiming to me is that when i enable the 16x9 mode on the 4:3 native projector i will gain the increased resolution when running anomorphic dvd's.

i hope that's what you meant.

This being the case what is the advantage of having a true 16x9 projector over a 4:3 native projector with 16x9 mode ?


thx again

 

[Huey]

No letterboxing or black bars on top and bottom for 16:9 movies on 16:9 native PJ. 2.35:1 movies will still have thin black bars for 16:9 PJ.

 

[TotallyODD]

Errr, you should receive a better picture, but thats not due to an increase in actual resolution. The resolution in terms of pixels displayed will be exactly the same if the 16:9 mode is used or not.


The improvement in picture quality comes from the projector receiving the "raw" image from the dvd player and doing the squeeze itself. No more pixels are used, its more a question of the quality of image processing.


A true 16:9 panel has the advantage because of no/reduced letterboxing and it uses more pixels (for a similar class of projector).


For example compare an xga (1024x768) and a wxga (1366x768)projector. (and assuming a 16:9 image)


The wxga projector will have an image consisting of 1,049,088 pixels (1366 x 769).


The xga projector will have a 16:9 image consisting of 589,824 pixels (576 x 1024).

 

[Dave C.]

Thanx guys i get the picture now, At last!!! Pun intended


BTW Huey thankyou for your advice you gave me last week about my projector. Sony have sent me a loaner CX1 and the green mist problem has gone as it was clearly a fault with my original unit. While i was waiting for the loaner two other problems developed. The first being dead pixels and the second was that on numerous occasions the projected image would lock up and i would have to turn the unit off and leave it for a while for the picture to return to normal.

Quite clearly this unit is a dud and i am requesting that Sony provide me with a new one instead of repairing a unit which is only a week old and has developed 3 seperate problems.

Anyway now i have seen what the CX1 is really meant to look like with the loan unit i am real impressed and hope sony can sort me out quickly.

 

[mhille]

Sorry that is not right.


TotallyODD your almost right but remember that a SVGA or XGA projecter is going to up sample the video.

So in 16x9 mode it is just not up sampling quite as much.


So NTSC video goes from 480 to 768 in 4x3 and 480 to 580(estimate) in 16x9 mode.


the best way to see the extra resolution is to look at the end credits of a movie. You should be able to find a movie where you can't read the credits in 4x3 but you can in 16x9.


I looked at all the pros and cons of 16x9 and 4x3 when I bought my projector.


I chose a 4x3 which had a 16x9 mode. 4x3 is cheaper at the moment and there really isn't a down side.


I watched a move they other day a thought that is a big picture. Then a put an episode of the x-files on and thought that is a huge picture.


I'm sure when the prices are at least level and nearly every thing is 16x9 I will be buying a 16x9 projector.

 

[Huey]

Yep, damn green fog is well-documented problem of LCD (any LCD from cheap CX1 to expensive light cannons) and probably LCOS too. Dead pixels are another curse of LCD and LCOS technology. If it's brightly stuck on, it can be annoying. Sony is OK with their service except they're slooooow (they kept my CX1 for 1 month for dead pixels repair). I finally rid mine and upgraded to LT150 (less dead pixel risk to worry about) and could not be happier. LT50 blew CX1 away for image quality (mostly due to enhanced contrast) on HTPC.

 

[TotallyODD]

Quote:

Originally posted by mhille Sorry that is not right. TotallyODD your almost right but remember that a SVGA or XGA projecter is going to up sample the video. So in 16x9 mode it is just not up sampling quite as much.

Sorry, could you be a bit more specific what you feel is in error?

 

[mhille]

Sorry TotallyODD I tried. This is a very confusing situation wrt 16x9/4x3.


You said

Quote:

Errr, you should receive a better picture, but thats not due to an increase in actual resolution. The resolution in terms of pixels displayed will be exactly the same if the 16:9 mode is used or not.

I have seen lots of other people say similar things.


I will try to give some more detail.


Assume

Video 480i (NTSC 480 lines)

Projector XGA (1024*768)

Anamorphic video uses 400 lines

Non-Anamorphic video uses 350 lines

I have used nice round numbers to make this a bit simpler. The extra 50 lines is the extra resolution we are chasing and their presence in the anamorphic picture is of cause what stretches the image.


Anamorphic disk shown on 4x3 device


Picture from disk 480 lines containing 400 lines of stretch picture.

DVD player in 4x3 widescreen mode so it down samples.

DVD Player produces video 480i with 480 lines containing 350 lines of normal picture. We have lost resolution.

Projector decodes 480i video and up samples to 768 lines.


Anamorphic disk shown on 4x3 device in 16x9 mode.


Picture from disk 480 lines containing 400 lines of stretch picture.

DVD player in 16x9 mode so it encodes all the picture in to the video.

DVD Player produces video 480i with 480 lines containing 400 lines of stretched picture.

Projector decodes 480i video and up samples to the portion of the panal used in 16x9 mode. This reverses the stretch.


Hope that helps. Both pictures in the example will look the same and even be at the same resolution on the projector because the projectors resolution is fixed. However the source of the picture has a higher resolution when the projector is in 16x9 mode.


Sorry for not using real numbers.


Matthew

 

[TotallyODD]

Thanks for that

 

[Dave C.]

One more thing while you knowledgable guys are here. My projector is Xga and if i run HTPC at a resolution of 1280x1024 through my projector am i gonna gain any benefits i.e increased lines/resolution etc. when playing 16x9 dvd's, as opposed to running it thorugh my standalone dvd player?


cheers

 

[TotallyODD]

You want to run your htpc at your projectors native resolution (xga).


Otherwise, the projector will just have to scale the image, adding artefacts and other nasties and defeating one of the main reasons to use an htpc (being able to bypass the projectors internal scaler).