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Remember you'll need 2 S-video cables, one into the VF and one out of the VF to the EH-59.
I'd still like you to try running the S-video cable direct to the recorder with a DVD known to have CP. I'm 99% sure the hack won't remove CP from the S-video/composite output but it's worth a try, if not then I won't even bother hooking up and hacking mine as I have no use for a CP free HDMI output. Oh and your re your laptop with HDMI input, yes that would be a good test but I'd think you'd need some sort of program for the recording although since your laptop has such a input it may already have the program installed. Just to make sure, the HDMI is a input? Many including my laptop have a HDMI output, but I haven't really seen one with a input.
 

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Remember you'll need 2 S-video cables, one into the VF and one out of the VF to the EH-59.
I'd still like you to try running the S-video cable direct to the recorder with a DVD known to have CP. I'm 99% sure the hack won't remove CP from the S-video/composite output but it's worth a try, if not then I won't even bother hooking up and hacking mine as I have no use for a CP free HDMI output. Oh and your re your laptop with HDMI input, yes that would be a good test but I'd think you'd need some sort of program for the recording although since your laptop has such a input it may already have the program installed. Just to make sure, the HDMI is a input? Many including my laptop have a HDMI output, but I haven't really seen one with a input.
tks for that reminder - it hadn't occurred to me , will have to go digging thru my cable closet to see if i've got another. On running one S-Video cable direct to the DVDR, that's what i'm focused on - really wanted to leave the video filter connected fairly permanently on the cable box

i'm actually toying (keyword, toying) with the idea of picking up a hauppauge 1512 but doing that, i'd negate half the use or need of the EH-59, as the hauppauge wants to run it's output to a PC and burn from there, which means i'd be using my desktop's burner. As S-Vid is going to be the only way to get the signal to the EH-59's DVDR, i'm see how that goes - if it strips the CP out and gives me a decent enough resolution i'll stay with it.

configuring this stuff could give an aspirin a headache, at least for someone still climbing the learning curve

and think you're right on that micro hdmi being output - but i'll have to check later when i've got access to it
 

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Copy Protection

They way I understand is that:

Macrovision inserts pulses into the vertical blanking interval to screw with the AGC circuitry. I think newer versions could disrupt the sync as well. The better built VCRs like my HR-S series decks will allow you to daisy chain the I/Os and will only trigger MV when you actually hit the record button. That's the way most DVD recorders will deal with MV as well. Certain burning software may recognize MV and prevent burning MV content.

CGMS-A just inserts an analog flag into a line of the vertical blanking interval so VCRs, although they record and pass thru the flag they ignore it during recording and playback. DVD recorders on the other hand are designed to read the analog flag and must abide by the rule and prevent recording. Again this is an analog flag inserted into the VBI and passed through analog (composite, s-video and component) connections. Certain burning software may recognize CGMS-A and prevent burning CGMS-A content.

CGMS-D is embedded into a digital signal and is only recognized via digital connections such as HDMI. It is also recognized by commercial software meant for burning on computers.

As to what filters get rid of what? Beats me.
 

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Actually the Video Filter or any other filter for use with DVDRs would have to not only remove MV but also CGMS-A at the hardware level
Perhaps I was unclear in that post. When I said CGMS-A "cannot be hacked at the hardware level," I wasn't referring to the Video Filter or similar devices. I meant hacking the hardware of a DVD player, i.e. the Samsung 850 we've been discussing. The MV hack disables the MV-generating circuit in the player, causing it to ignore commands from the dvd to overlay an MV signal. The hack works because of the peculiar way MV was implemented in the DVD spec (instead of actually being in the recording like VHS, the MV-protected DVD issues a programming command to the player hardware telling it to generate its own MV signal).

Such player hacks usually have no effect on CGMS-A because that is generally embedded in the DVD video itself. Some DVD players, like my ancient Sony DVP-S7000, literally have a physical switch on their motherboards to disable MV, but still pass CGMS-A if it is embedded in the DVD video. Weird!

Of course as you say, any competent modern filter like the Grex or LD Video Filter will blank out any and all protection signals or flags present in the video feed from a dvd player (including both MV and CGMS-A). A properly-functioning modern TBC like the AVT-8710 should also have this filtering ability, but unfortunately many TBCs are off-spec and can't be consistently relied on for this purpose. The old-style 9v "cigarette pack" MV filters will only reliably suppress MV (tho sometimes they can be internally adjusted to catch CGMS-A as well, as AVS member tomwill demonstrated with the MCM-branded cheap MV box).

Also while the Video Filter may be able to be used with component it won't convert from component to S-video or composite, it would be just a component in/component out device.

Thanks for that clarification. Its hard to tell from photos of the unit and some of the earlier threads.
 

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Got home last night and got a call from the shop that UPS had delivered the Pan EH-59 - so went back and picked it up. Not sure why UPS predicted 7/7 delivery unless they were allowing for july 4th delays, but anyway it's here.

Earlier this afternoon, after going thru the manual, i set it up first with the sony BDP-S580 player - as it had no S-Video output, i ran RCA cables - recording was not successful - all i got was a purple snow grainy screen. I then hooked the Samsung HD-850 up via S-Video cable and basically got the same except i could see a distorted semblance of the video in the background behind the purple snowy grainy display. On the samsung attempt i tried both recording direct to the DVD, and then recording to the HDD first, then i would pass it onto the DVD - the HDD recording was same as the first DVD attempt, purple snowy grainy with the distorted ghost image of the video in the background.

The video filter came in yesterday as well (thanks LD for the fast service) - will try it later.

video i used is a 2008 release (that's the newest commercial DVD i had on hand). Will also try it again later with some older DVDs, hopefully i've some without the CGMS-A encoding.

fwiw

in researching the CGMS-A on a "fred flintstone" level, i found the following on wikipedia:

"Another form of analog copy protection, known as CGMS-A, is added by DVD players and digital cable/satellite boxes. While not invented by Macrovision, the company's products implemented it. CGMS-A consists of a "flag" within the vertical blanking interval (essentially data, like closed captioning) which digital recording devices search for. If present, it refused to record the signal, just as with the earlier ACP technology. Unlike digital recording equipment, however, analog VCRs do not respond to CGMS-A encoded video and would record it successfully if ACP is not also present."

if that is correct, then to some extent the "HDCP Free" is working in that it did not refuse to record the signal. Is it possible there's another CP protection coding that is causing the purple snowy grainy flickering picture?
 

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Make sure you've selected the proper input, I believe the rear line inputs are L3?
Also make sure you've selected NTSC as your recording and playback format, PAL won't do you any good recording NTSC(our system).
Are you seeing the menu's from the EH-59? If the recorder was set to output PAL you may need to hook it up to a PAL compatible display to change things, several name brand LCDs(but not the Majors) are actually PAL compatible, Vizio and more off brands like Magnavox, Sylvania, Insignia, etc. may be PAL compatible, brands like Samsung and Sony probably not. My LG displays PAL but I've been told other not all LGs do. I'd try HDMI first, it probably has the best possibility of supporting PAL although this is just a guess.
It's possible you got a bad one but of 4 I tried only one was bad and that was more a intermittent problem when dubbing almost full DVDs, otherwise it seemed OK. B&H gave me a free return shipping label to ship back the bad one but didn't have a replacement so they just gave me a credit for the full price paid. I had to wait a few weeks until they got another used one in stock and I ordered that one which was just fine.
 

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Make sure you've selected the proper input, I believe the rear line inputs are L3?
Also make sure you've selected NTSC as your recording and playback format, PAL won't do you any good recording NTSC(our system).
Are you seeing the menu's from the EH-59? If the recorder was set to output PAL you may need to hook it up to a PAL compatible display to change things, several name brand LCDs(but not the Majors) are actually PAL compatible, Vizio and more off brands like Magnavox, Sylvania, Insignia, etc. may be PAL compatible, brands like Samsung and Sony probably not. My LG displays PAL but I've been told other not all LGs do. I'd try HDMI first, it probably has the best possibility of supporting PAL although this is just a guess.
It's possible you got a bad one but of 4 I tried only one was bad and that was more a intermittent problem when dubbing almost full DVDs, otherwise it seemed OK. B&H gave me a free return shipping label to ship back the bad one but didn't have a replacement so they just gave me a credit for the full price paid. I had to wait a few weeks until they got another used one in stock and I ordered that one which was just fine.

inputs are labeled AV1 thru AV4, then there was one alternate but my brain dropped that one's title

i didn't see a selection for NTSC vs PAL but as this was a used unit, there were 3 TCM movies on the HDD and they all played fine.

i'm going to try recording with the LD video recorder after dinner, and see what it does - if it does record then, there's got to be some CP coding or feature that HDCP Free isn't defeating

PS - just popped the same DVD that i was trying to copy, into the PAN EH-59 and it's playing fine, so i think the unit is set to NTSC

TV is a SHARP Aquos LC-60LE640U LED
 

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well, i found a copy of 9&1/2 weeks (Mickey Rouke & Kim Bassinger), released 1986 - hell there wasn't even the copyright warnings or FBI warning.

Got the same result, purple snowy grainy flickering display screen, and to check the dvd i played in the PAN's dvd tray and it played fine

whatever the HDCP Free hack is letting thru will not let anything record - and btw, found the NTSC selection was already set to NTSC

it just could be the input - ie the pan's manual shows setup for importing a video from a video cassette - could it be it just won't allow anything from another dvd player? (even when recording to the HDD)
 

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As I noted above, HDCP is strictly a digital encryption that is associated with the HDMI bitstream. It's purpose is to prevent bit-level digital copying of the HD stream. I don't understand why you keep thinking an HDCP removal hack will have anything to do with the analog outputs or analog copy protection. The distorted images you are seeing/recording when you hook the analog output of a BD/DVD player directly to the analog input of a DVD recorder is exactly what you should see due to analog copy-protection -- there is no rule that says you have to get an error message on the screen telling you it's copy-protected. You will need to insert the video filter you bought between the source and recorder to filter out the analog copy-protection.

If the HDCP hack works to disable HDCP in the player then that only has use for a recording device with an HDMI input.
 

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I didn't know - as i said at the beginning this was going to be a test to see if it would work - i'm still at the bottom of the learning curve. But one reason i assumed it would cause the recorder to not record is because that's all i've seen folks report on CP protected material. I don't think i've made any reference to anything about expecting an error msg.

using the video filter was going to be my next test but i've got to wait for a 2nd S-Video cable to come in. In the meantime i'm looking for a DVD or CD even, that is non-CP protected, just to make sure the recording head / circuitry is up to snuff.
 

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larryccf, it would be a good idea to check whether your EH59 inputs or your video cables are malfunctioning. This behavior of recording a poor quality, distorted dub is not normal for most DVD recorders. With every recorder I've ever owned, any attempt to dub protected commercial material directly from a dvd player resulted in outright refusal to record, or a recording that automatically stops within seconds, then the machine displaying "cannot record" or "copy protected" etc. None of my units would record protected material continuously, distorted or not, in the presence of either MV or CGMS-A . Commercial DVDs have up to three protection signals: old MV ala VHS, new MV "colorburst" add-on, and CGMS-A. There are some discs without MV, but 90% carry CGMS-A which almost instantly triggers a "cannot record this material" reaction from most DVD recorders.

If your EH59 is contentedly chugging along nonstop, recording a distorted picture from protected sources with no alert displayed, there might be an issue in its input circuits or cables. Have you tried recording from a clean, unprotected source like a personal DVD or a cable box playing a clear channel or from a personal VHS or camcorder? If those are also distorted, the EH59 is defective. If they record cleanly, it would verify your EH59 is operating normally (albeit bizarrely: it would be the first DVD recorder I've ever heard of that happily makes a lousy copy of protected material without bothering to display a warning screen). If it works OK with unprotected sources, the Samsung hack failed to disable all protection signals resulting in the purple tinge and distortions. That should clear up after you patch in the Video Filter.
 

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larryccf, it would be a good idea to check whether your EH59 inputs or your video cables are malfunctioning. This behavior of recording a poor quality, distorted dub is not normal for most DVD recorders. With every recorder I've ever owned, any attempt to dub protected commercial material directly from a dvd player resulted in outright refusal to record, or a recording that automatically stops within seconds, then the machine displaying "cannot record" or "copy protected" etc. None of my units would record protected material continuously, distorted or not, in the presence of either MV or CGMS-A . Commercial DVDs have up to three protection signals: old MV ala VHS, new MV "colorburst" add-on, and CGMS-A. There are some discs without MV, but 90% carry CGMS-A which almost instantly triggers a "cannot record this material" reaction from most DVD recorders.

If your EH59 is contentedly chugging along nonstop, recording a distorted picture from protected sources with no alert displayed, there might be an issue in its input circuits or cables. Have you tried recording from a clean, unprotected source like a personal DVD or a cable box playing a clear channel or from a personal VHS or camcorder? If those are also distorted, the EH59 is defective. If they record cleanly, it would verify your EH59 is operating normally (albeit bizarrely: it would be the first DVD recorder I've ever heard of that happily makes a lousy copy of protected material without bothering to display a warning screen). If it works OK with unprotected sources, the Samsung hack failed to disable all protection signals resulting in the purple tinge and distortions. That should clear up after you patch in the Video Filter.
Cables are old but never used -- but will try replacing - i've got 2 sets of each (RCA Composite, Component and the new std HDMI 1.4 due in fm amazon, but doubt they'll be here for a few days, probably a week.

And just found an unprotected promotional DVD from a trade show that i am going to try later - if it works, I assume I won't need to try the cables

tks for the suggestions
 

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Citibear is correct, the EH-59 like all other Panasonics won't record a blank or distorted image if the source is CP'd, it will just give you the warning and refuse to record. If you have no DVDs you know are CP free then just power on the DVD player you have(without a DVD in the tray) and try and record the splash screen. If this doesn't record you have either a bad cable or DVDR, if it does record then put your DVD in the tray and push PLAY. Note Sony DVD players will allow you to record the splash screen but as soon as it detects CP it will shut down your DVDR, even after pushing STOP on the Sony it will still be sending out a CP signal and the DVDR will refuse to record, the only way to reset this is to either power cycle the Sony or play a NON CP'd DVD, this will reset things and allow you to record again.

Your first test should be to run a composite cable from your DVD player directly to your TV, if this looks OK then run that same composite cable to one of the line INPUTS of your EH-59. Select that input on your EH-59 and finally run a composite(or HDMI or whatever) output cable from your EH-59 to your TV. For testing you should always be watching through your EH-59's output to see whats going on.
 

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ok - just did the latest test with some interesting results.
First i tried the promotional DVD in the two DVD trays (Sammy HD850 & the PAN EH59) and it played fine in both. This DVD was done by an industry magazine where they interview exhibitors at trade shows and do a fairly nice promotional video they give out with their magazine - i've copied it thousands of times on my desktop so i know there no CP.

Tried recording to the HDD first with the S-Video cables and got nothing but the purple snowy grainy flickering image.
Then shut everything down and swapped out the S-video cable for RCA composite cables and surprisingly i got audio but no video. So thinking the RCA video cable might be bad, i swapped out with another set of RCA cables (both sets have never been used, one set came with the PAN EH59 and were brand new) - same result with the 2nd set of cables, audio came thru and recorded fine, but no video.

I'm starting to think i've got a bad recording circuit or recording head

for the record, i went thru all connections twice to make sure i was connected to "out" and "in" where appropriate and that i had the correct input selected (AV4)

????
 

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FOUND THE ISSUE - I'd left the HDMI cable connected from the samsung dvd player to the TV - disconnected it from the dvd player and it recorded the non-CP protected disk fine.

Then went and tried both the 2008 released DVD and the 1986 released DVD and both would not record and instead displayed a "copy protected signal detected, cannot record"

FWIW
 

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So that answers our question, the hack has nothing to do with the analog outputs :( I suspected this so I won't be hacking mine and for your $40 you kind of got an expensive DVD player but IMO a pretty decent one. I didn't realize hooking up HDMI would disable the analog outputs but many newer devices seem to be going this route, I don't think I've ever used the HDMI output on my 850, I basically just used the S-video and L&R audio outputs and they looked quite good.
 

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since i hijacked this thread sideways, figured i'd wrap it up and bring it back to it's orig topic - the video filter.

after i learned the hack was not going to allow me to dub CP protected material, i hooked the video filter up, between the samsung HD-850 and the PAN EH-59 recorder and all's well- made 9 dvd copies and the LD video filter performed flawlessly and actually seem to clean the image up - but to my untrained eye it's hard to describe accurate what looks better, i just know it's a cleaner image on screen.

For anyone thinking about Logic Design's video filter, go ahead and pull the trigger - LD shipped fast, paid on a Friday night and it was here on Tuesday
 

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question on using the video filter.

I've recorded or copied a number of DVDs, playing them on my Samsung HD-850 player > the video filter then > and recording on the pansonic EH-59 with no issue. Also used it to record a couple of shows from comcast STB, again with no issues (using RCA composite cables)

Went to record a netflix show and got the dreaded "copy protection signal detected - cannot record". I tried it a number of different ways with no success. (also using RCA composite cables)

In case, i have an ethernet cable running to my Sony BDP-S580 Blu-Ray/DVD player, as the sony player has a netflix streaming app and i like that interface. The only other choice for a Netflix app on my system, currently, is to run that cable to my TV (a Sharp Aquos TV) but the TV has no output connections, so for the purposes of recording, that is not a choice.

jjeff had commented earlier that sony is notorious in overkill in the way of CP protection.

I'm trying to determine if it's netflix inserting a super stealth CP protection that is making it thru the video recorder, or if the Sony player is the culprit. If it's the Sony player, then it would simply be a matter of picking up another component, whether another player or a streaming device, that does not insert it's own CP signal.

So - if anyone is using the video filter, are you able to record Netflix shows? - if so, what device are you streaming it thru?

tks in advance

PS - while the comcast STB has an ethernet connection, the Sharp TV doesn't detect the netflix signal on it's app - it does when the cable is attached directly to the TV
 

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thanks
 
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