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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I asked this question on one of the TV forums - but so far I think I just got stange looks. So here's the question:


If I use an HDMI connection between a DVD player and my Sony KDF-42WE655 TV and the audio is 5.1, then what do I hear thru the TV speakers? Will it be just L&R channels or will the TV downmix the 5.1 to 2 channels?


Ed
 

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Ed:


I don't know for sure, but since no one's taken a stab at this for 24 hours, I'll make a suggestion.


Do you have a test disc (Avia or the like) with discrete channel ID test tracks? Even a THX DVD would work as they have the "THX Optimizer" test on them.


If you can hear any channels other than the L & R being played back through the L & R, you know it's a downmix.


Logically speaking, it would make no sense not to downmix. Imagine what a movie DD soundtrack would be like if the centre channel was ignored. Dialog would be unintelligible.
 

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I for one cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to sacrifice real 5.1 surround for the sake of having one less cable - simply amazing.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwalt
I for one cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to sacrifice real 5.1 surround for the sake of having one less cable - simply amazing.


And I for one simply cannot figure out why someone needs to be so snippy at someone with out knowing the facts. Maybe he doesn't have a full setup yet,maybe he is testing or experimenting.

I mean my post is not relevant but yours was simply a bandwidth waste to come out and passive aggressively bash this guy.
 

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Originally Posted by speco2003
Maybe he doesn't have a full setup yet,maybe he is testing or experimenting.
Ed has an Anthem AVM-20 and either Paradigm or M&K speakers, can't remember which.


I suspect it's largely an academic/curiosity question.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
OK - here are all the answers (sorry that they're not more timely but I have something called a job that gets in my way :) ).


I was thinking that I could find out by using a test DVD (FAOCH's suggestion), but I don't have the HDVI DVD player YET. So I'm just wondering ahead of time.


This is for a 2nd TV in the bedroom where I don't have a 5.1 system (and don't need one since I don't watch there) - hence the lack of the other channels.


I do have an AVM-20 pre/pro, Sherbourn 7/2100A power amp, and both M&K and Paradigm speakers that I swap out in my main 7.1 setup.


Ed
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by speco2003
And I for one simply cannot figure out why someone needs to be so snippy at someone with out knowing the facts. Maybe he doesn't have a full setup yet,maybe he is testing or experimenting.

I mean my post is not relevant but yours was simply a bandwidth waste to come out and passive aggressively bash this guy.
My, someone's feeling a bit sensitive today. :eek: :D I wasn't trying to bash anyone for using HDMI. My statement was more directed towards comsumer electroincs r&d personell. If Ed has a reason other than wanting one less wire then my reply was definitely not directed towards him. Sorry Ed (and speco), if my post offended you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwalt
My statement was more directed towards comsumer electroincs r&d personell.
I agree. For video, HDMI is fine, but for audio it's a train wreck.


Just wait until the jitter counters play with HDMI audio.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwalt
My, someone's feeling a bit sensitive today. :eek: :D I wasn't trying to bash anyone for using HDMI. My statement was more directed towards comsumer electroincs r&d personell. If Ed has a reason other than wanting one less wire then my reply was definitely not directed towards him. Sorry Ed (and speco), if my post offended you.
I probaby did jump your right, its just recently it seems alot of noobs have been coming in flaming and then leaving. I dont really have a dog in this hunt as I dont use my DVI connection, but I can see where there would be problems with it.
 

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Hey, no worries and I'm glad your dog's not in danger. :p Now you know, DVI is a different story. I use my DVI for my ATSC receiver. I just never could understand why someone (electroincs r&d) would think combining video and audio in one cable to the TV would be something people would want. I understand there are cases where it makes sense, like Ed said, in his bedroom. My thinking is most people who watch DVD want the surround experience especially if it's a big screen. I guess eventually you will be able to run the HDMI cable from the DVD player to the TV then out to a surround receiver but as far as I know there are no HDMI outputs on Tv's. Are there?
 

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I don't have an HDTV yet (been looking though), so take what I say with a grain of salt.


But, I beleive that most of the HDTVs out there have an optical out to feed the sound from the TV to the reciever. This is beleived to be a good thing, because if the TV is doing scaling, the tv will delay the audio the proper amount to avoid the lip-synch issue. [Edit: You also need the optical out, for when you are using the TVs tuner. ]


If you use the TV's speakers, the 5.1 will be downmixed to 2 channel stereo. I beleive that there are some reports in the Rear Projection Forum (DLP,LCD) that the sound out on some TVs (Samsung DLPs) is only 2-channel, which makes everyone scream. I haven't read the forum in a while, so double check this.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwalt
I just never could understand why someone (electroincs r&d) would think combining video and audio in one cable to the TV would be something people would want.
It's actually a very good idea.


Just think of how many newbies were startled to learn that those 3 component video cables would not carry audio - and that you needed 1 (optical or coaxial digital) or 2 (analog) more to carry audio!


Unfortunately it was one of those good ideas that was poorly executed. The video manufacturers jumped on board in a big way and adoption is now widespread, if not universal. But audio was really an afterthought and audio HDMI solutions are slow in coming.


It sounds like TVs were really in mind when they came out with HDMI as HDMI will do 2-channel PCM fairly well. Receivers were never the priority it seems since you can now pass DD/DTS but upcoming SACD/DVD-A won't be nearly as good as i.Link.


We're all here thinking "HMDI -> receiver -> TV" while the manufacturers were thinking "HDMI -> TV".


Audio adoption has been so slow that receivers that actually use the audio signal have lagged several years behind video devices that use the video signal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraoch
OT: how did the repair turn out?
Good. It was the DSP board - and now it's essentially the same as an AVM 30.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I got replies in the DLP/LCD/LCOS RPTV forum. They claim that the TV will only accept 2 channel PCM. Supposedly there is info in the manual - I'll check. But that's strange given that there already is a DD decoder in the TV.


Ed
 

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Regarding the 2-channel PCM requirement, perhaps there's just a very basic DSP in the TV that will only decode DD and not downmix. But if it decodes DD, what's it there for? Will it accept DD 5.1 by optical/coaxial?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
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Originally Posted by Fraoch
But if it decodes DD, what's it there for? Will it accept DD 5.1 by optical/coaxial?
The TV has both digital cable tuner and digital (HDTV + EDTV) over the air (OTA) tuners built in. The OTA standard (ASTC in USA and I'm pretty sure this is the same standard adopted in Canada) for audio is DD. In fact, DD (originally called Dolby AC3) was developed for terrestial digital broadcast - not for DVDs. Hence the presence of the DD decoder. The TV has a digital audio out (can't rememeber whether its optical or coax) since the digital TV reception can be 5.1 and you'd have to feed that to a receiver to listen to 5.1. But it has no digital audio in (except for the HDMI) since the TV only has stereo speakers.


BTW, I checked the manual and indeed the only digital audio input recognized is 2 channel PCM with a variety of sampling rates and word lengths. So that that answers my original question.


Ed
 
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