[odditory]

I'm curious what people recommend for a good, future-proof PRE, preferably with Trinnov, to couple with a NAD M25 amp.


Seemingly all the newest AVR's at the moment are clearly bleeding edge with each one having unique problems and bugs with issues like LPCM/bitstreaming audio, HTPC compatibility, etc. Information on PRE's is more scarce than all the AVR reports since obviously far fewer people run separate components.


I've heard Sherwood Newcastle P972 tossed around, but SN stuff tends to be vapor/paper-launch WAY before they end up shipping their stuff, so not sure I want to wait until after CES 2009 for that one.


Any ideas?

 

[DougWinsor]

Well you could look into the Mcintosh AP1000 but that will be around $10,000+ and there is no release date.

 

[tassop]



Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory /forum/post/14289619


I'm curious what people recommend for a good, future-proof PRE, preferably with Trinnov, to couple with a NAD M25 amp.


Seemingly all the newest AVR's at the moment are clearly bleeding edge with each one having unique problems and bugs with issues like LPCM/bitstreaming audio, HTPC compatibility, etc. Information on PRE's is more scarce than all the AVR reports since obviously far fewer people run separate components.


I've heard Sherwood Newcastle P972 tossed around, but SN stuff tends to be vapor/paper-launch WAY before they end up shipping their stuff, so not sure I want to wait until after CES 2009 for that one.


Any ideas?

Depending upon how much you want to spend there are some pretty good options. I have Denon's new AVP-A1HD and this thing will do everything- (it will practically mow the lawn too). i have the NAD M25 of which 4 channels are used to Bi-amp the front speakers and the remaining 3 on the front and surrounds. I have a separate 2 channel power amp for the rears. With the AVP, it is a match made in heaven, IMO.


If you are not as fussed about analog audio sources, then the Integra DTC-9.8 is an excellent value alternative which gives excellent results with movies and digital audio. there are a couple appearing on the used market quite cheaply as well.

marantz's has also just released a new pre/pro but i don't know much about it.


In terms of AVR's all new Denon's have very good video processing abilities. They all use Audyssey as opposed to Trinov.

 

[odditory]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tassop /forum/post/14293706


Depending upon how much you want to spend there are some pretty good options. I have Denon's new AVP-A1HD and this thing will do everything- (it will practically mow the lawn too). i have the NAD M25 of which 4 channels are used to Bi-amp the front speakers and the remaining 3 on the front and surrounds. I have a separate 2 channel power amp for the rears. With the AVP, it is a match made in heaven, IMO.


If you are not as fussed about analog audio sources, then the Integra DTC-9.8 is an excellent value alternative which gives excellent results with movies and digital audio. there are a couple appearing on the used market quite cheaply as well.

marantz's has also just released a new pre/pro but i don't know much about it.


In terms of AVR's all new Denon's have very good video processing abilities. They all use Audyssey as opposed to Trinov.

Damn that Denon is the mother of all Pre's right now (at least the ones that support the newest HD audio codecs).


My needs are basically not carying about analog sources (100% of my sources will be 1080p), I mainly want max amount of HDMI inputs + latest HD audio support + a lot of power in terms of the combo.


thanks for info.

 

[dakar80124]

What I would recommend, and what I decided to do is get a cheap receiver with pre-outs and the features you want and use with your M25. I'm waiting 6 more months and then will look at some more products as they become available. I'm waiting for Outlaw and Nuforce to come out with HDMI pre/pros.

 

[odditory]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dakar80124 /forum/post/14295568


What I would recommend, and what I decided to do is get a cheap receiver with pre-outs and the features you want and use with your M25. I'm waiting 6 more months and then will look at some more products as they become available. I'm waiting for Outlaw and Nuforce to come out with HDMI pre/pros.

Yeah, agreed.. hate to spend $7k on something like Denon's top of the line pre only to have some new codec or feature come out next year in their $500 AVR. Imagine someone that bought a Denon 5308 for Audyssey EQ and Volume and now Denon is shipping those features in their 2009 low-end receivers that only cost a few hundred.


Seems like separate high-quality amp is a good game plan: more future proof due to its low-tech nature, and being able to independently upgrade to newest pre-out equipped AVR's as new some new processing feature comes out that's worth upgrading for.

 

[Eric Carroll]

You could start by reading the thread in the link below.

 

[odditory]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll /forum/post/14322441


You could start by reading the thread in the link below.

Subscribed - thanks. I can't believe how complicated this business of AVR's and Pre's has become these days! With new HD audio standards and bitstreaming audio issues, 1080p upscaling quality differences between various makes/models, HTPC connectivity bugs, yada yada this era of AVR's is more complex than even dealing with computers.

 

[DougWinsor]



Quote:
mainly want max amount of HDMI inputs + latest HD audio support + a lot of power in terms of the combo.

Remember with HDMI switches you will not have to worry about running out of inputs/outputs.

Quote:
You could start by reading the thread in the link below.

Way to go eric.

 

[B&W700guy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory /forum/post/14321722


Yeah, agreed.. hate to spend $7k on something like Denon's top of the line pre only to have some new codec or feature come out next year in their $500 AVR. Imagine someone that bought a Denon 5308 for Audyssey EQ and Volume and now Denon is shipping those features in their 2009 low-end receivers that only cost a few hundred.


Seems like separate high-quality amp is a good game plan: more future proof due to its low-tech nature, and being able to independently upgrade to newest pre-out equipped AVR's as new some new processing feature comes out that's worth upgrading for.

How much are you looking to spend?

 

[odditory]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor /forum/post/14330145


Remember with HDMI switches you will not have to worry about running out of inputs/outputs.

Sure, and I run a 3x1 HDMI switch now, but I'm talking ideals in having the AVR do it all so there isn't that second layer (and additional HDMI hop) of switching complexity. One thing I've learned in all my years of programming remotes and dealing with switching, is that it's less headache keeping things as simple as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B&W700guy /forum/post/14330184


How much are you looking to spend?

Not really set in stone - I'm not too good to spend $500 or $1000 on an AVR or Pre, likewise I'm not opposed to $5k+ on an AVR or Pre if it's upgradeable and future-proof. I'd probably also spend up to $2500 on a 7 channel amp. The amp is really the easy part so far - the AMP offerings from NAD and Emotiva at around the $1500-$1600 pricepoint are more than enough power I'll be able to even use in my condo (due to neighboring unit adjacent to my TV/speaker wall).


If Denon would hurry up and update their 5308 to a 2009-model (i.e. 5309) like they've done with their lower end offerings, I'd probably jump on that today. I wouldn't even be opposed to their lower end AVR's like the 1909 or 2909 due to the inclusion of Audyssey EQ and Volume, except they don't have pre-outs.

 

[wesabi]

If lots of HDMI inputs are very important... the Sony DA5300ES receiver has the most I've seen in a receiver today with 6 HDMI inputs. It's being replaced with a new 4400ES model, so online prices are around $1K.


The upcoming Emotiva XMC-1 pre is supposed to have 6 ins (2 outs) and retail for $999 as well when it comes out in a couple months.

 

[odditory]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wesabi /forum/post/14330442


If lots of HDMI inputs are very important... the Sony DA5300ES receiver has the most I've seen in a receiver today with 6 HDMI inputs. It's being replaced with a new 4400ES model, so online prices are around $1K.


The upcoming Emotiva XMC-1 pre is supposed to have 6 ins (2 outs) and retail for $999 as well when it comes out in a couple months.

Yeah, I'm just a bit worried though when it comes to these smaller companies getting into the HDMI 1.3a game, since there's so much more computer and chip level stuff they have to keep up with like the big japanese companies with their rooms full of engineers are doing. I mean firmware upgradeability, Audyssey processing, HTPC compatibility issues when it comes to the 1080P HDMI signal, not to mention the new HD audio codecs. I think the reasons I mention is why it's taking the smaller companies longer to come out with their versions of the product that try to include these features.


I think I'm pretty stuck on Audyssey EQ and dynamic volume based on all the great things I've read, so that's probably a requirement for me now in a Pre or AVR.


As for the Sony, if it has Pre-outs I might consider, but in general I'm avoiding anything with the Sony label on it due to their business practices over time (silly as that might sound - just a personal preference!)

 

[rnrgagne]



Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory /forum/post/14330333



If Denon would hurry up and update their 5308 to a 2009-model (i.e. 5309) like they've done with their lower end offerings, I'd probably jump on that today. I wouldn't even be opposed to their lower end AVR's like the 1909 or 2909 due to the inclusion of Audyssey EQ and Volume, except they don't have pre-outs.

The 5308, has MultEQ XT, XT Pro capability, Dynamic EQ and will have the Dynamic Volume available via free upgrade shortly. I don't think there will be a 5309 anytime soon.

 

[B&W700guy]

You may want to wait until CEDIA and check out the 2nd gen of 3.1 Prepros/receivers. I think if you buy now you will not be happy. If I was you, that is what I would do. Well...unless you got to have it.

 

[aus]

You could always go Anthem and be future proof with options to upgrade as new tech comes out. They also sound fantastic, imagine that.

 

[B&W700guy]

Have they come out with a HDMI 1.3 card for their existing line of prepros?

 

[odditory]



Quote:
Originally Posted by aus /forum/post/14332060


You could always go Anthem and be future proof with options to upgrade as new tech comes out. They also sound fantastic, imagine that.

Sounds good on paper, but I wonder what the practical reality of this is. I.e. have there actually been any 'upgrade' cards to come out for people with Anthem Pre's in the past, and are they cost efficient or not.

 

[rnrgagne]



Quote:
Originally Posted by odditory /forum/post/14332202


Sounds good on paper, but I wonder what the practical reality of this is. I.e. have there actually been any 'upgrade' cards to come out for people with Anthem Pre's in the past, and are they cost efficient or not.

From what I understand, all physical updates had to be sent to the manufacturer so far, and I don't think there's anything changing in their basic platforms to make it card based. They do have very good firmware support from what I've read. Also I think BW700's HDMI 1.3 question is a good one.


AFAIK Meridian is the only one out there that is truly card based and actually puts out cards and they have an HDMI 1.3 card with HBR support in the works. I remember Integra putting card based unit out a while back, the TNR1000 or something, but they never came out with any cards that I can recall.

 

[aus]

Like rnrgagne said, you have to send the unit back to them to get updates, but people who bought an AVM30 years ago, could send it back and upgrade to an AVM30-HD, which is basically an AVM50 or if you bought a D1, you could upgrade to a D2. There are plenty of AVM30's on sale on A-gon and e-bay.


As for cost effectiveness, that's up to you. Remember these pre/pro's get WELL reviewed for SOUND quality.


They have HDMI 1.1 at this time, so you have to decide if bit-streaming is important to you. I'm sure they'll have upgrades in the future. They started to whole scaling chip in the pre/pro or reciever idea. They had HDMI out way before the other guys and would update firmware when some unit didn't work well with it. There's also a HUGE thread here with VERY knowledgable people to help you set it up. Did I mention they sound great.


For less money, I'd consider the Onkyo pre/pro or like other's have said the Integra. I'm waiting for an Arcam reciever that will do sound via HDMI for the bedroom, which means there will likely be a pro/pro based on it.