What is a reasonable price for a Crestron setup?

Quote:
Mike,

I hear this about how great Crestron is and I'm not disputing this since I'm really ignorant about it but I can sit in my seat with a $199 Phillips Pronto and run 15 different lighting scenes ,curtain presets for their position, aspect ratios,preset memories of projector settings for different devices, select inputs ,have macros for way more than I can think of wanting .I have one remote.



Art

Mainstream options:

- Pronto

- HomeTheaterMaster remotes

- Girder+HTPC+ $20 remote


These can be programmed by the average person but I don't think they are as robust as Crestron (or other dedicated automation solutions). There was a very lengthy thread on this last year (I think it started when talking about Dean's CQC product).


For me, I'll forgo a little robustness for $14k...

You can set up a CQC based theater control scenario for as little as $2200. It just requires a small, dedicated controller machine, a multi-port serial card, and for the lowest cost solution a standard 7" touch screen mounted on or between the chair arms (on a swivel if you want to let either side access it), or for somewhat more you can get a wireless tablet (something like one of the new UMPC devices would be a nice choice.) If you need IR, an R2DI 4 zone IR card would be added.


I was running pretty much exactly this type of system for a good while. It was a HushPC box (very small, fanless), with a 4 port serial card, Z-Wave lighting controller, and a standard 15" touch screen on the table beside the couch. It worked flawlessly for a couple years until I replaced it (didn't need to replace it, I just updated to one of our new boxes.) It ran a stripped down XP installation, with just the stuff needed for a dedicated automation system. It stayed up for over a year at a time, and was only brought down a couple times to physically move it.


I'm currently controlling a Sony 777ES changer, Dwin HD-700 projector, HD-Leeza scaler, Lexicon MC-1 processor, Sony HD300 DirecTV set top box, Z-Wave USB controller controlling the apartment lighting. I can browse my movies and music, get weather data, fully control all my equipment with full two way control.

http://www.charmedquark.com/Web/Gall...outDiagram.jpg


Here are some of my current user interfaces (drawn by me using the interface designer that is part of the product, so there is nothing 'built in' about these interfaces.)

http://www.charmedquark.com/Web/Gall...iesOverlay.jpg
http://www.charmedquark.com/Web/Gall...vieOverlay.jpg
http://www.charmedquark.com/Web/Gall...sicOverlay.jpg
http://www.charmedquark.com/Web/Gall...sicOverlay.jpg
http://www.charmedquark.com/Web/Gall...herOverlay.jpg
http://www.charmedquark.com/Web/Gall...dioOverlay.jpg
http://www.charmedquark.com/Web/Gall...ingOverlay.jpg


So you definitely don't need to spend $15K to get an excellent theater control system. This is not to say that Crestron is bad, since it's obviously not. It's a high quality product and it has a proven track record. But there are lower cost alternatives for this type of fairly straightforward home theater system, which aren't terribly challenging for the automation system.


The whole cost of my previous system would be something like:


$950 - HushPC system with XP, 40GB drive, 512MB

$650 - 15" touch screen

$90 - 4 port serial card

$315 - CQC license (if you need the full system, as little as $200 for a basic system.)

$50 - Cables, USB for touch screen, and RGB for the video

$150 - Z-Wave, about $150 for the controller and a couple lighting modules.


* If the noise isn't an issue, i.e. the computer is in a closet/rack, then you can get a far cheaper enclosure with fans, and knock another $250 off the price probably.


This assumes of course that you DIY it, and it's not a lot to do, and you could get some professional help for the cabling part if you aren't comfy with that, basically just making/pulling the serial cables and video/USB cables to where they need to get to. The rest anyone fairly computer literate can do themselves, though they may want to pay for some nice interfaces if they don't feel comfortable creating interfaces as pretty as they would like. We have lawyers and manager types as customers who have set up quite nice solutions of their own of this type.


Here is a picture of my old system:

http://charmedquark.com/Web2/Downloa.../HUSHPC-C1.jpg


It actualy looks quite nice, kind of gothic. The interface there is from my old interface set, which I updated to the ones above a while back.

Quote:
Universal's MX3000 is a nice touch screen infrared/rf programmable remote. It is NOT as versatile as the Crestron, but for running out of sight HT components, it will do the job and the end user a customizable touchscreen to boot.


Cost is $1,000 for the remote; $250 for the RF receiver base: ??? programming.


--SimpleTheater

Quote:
I understand that, but the pronto is not a 2 way remote and cannot make decisions based on feedback from components.


For example, when I select a movie to play such as Dances With Wolves, the Kaleidescape will tell the system it is starting and the film was measured to be 2.37:1 aspect ratio from the source with the image rendered but missing the last 2 columns of pixels on the right side.


The controller will then tell my Lumagen scaler to shift one pixel to the right and scale to cover the missing pixels. It will then set my screen into programming mode and turn screen preset #4 (it only has 4 presets) into a custom aspect ratio of 2.37:1 and then take it out of program mode and set it to preset #4. When I switch to Ben Hur, it will adjust to that aspect ratio and fix the settings. Then when I go back to watching Shrek it will send the anamorphic lens sliding out of the way, adjust the scaler to the proper aspect ratio setting and bring in the side masks to Shrek's measured aspect ratio as per the Kaleidescape database. Finally, when the end credits come, it will raise the lights in the room. It will do all this without any user interaction, so I don't have to teach my wife what commands to hit to operate the anamorphic lens, the scaler, the masking system, etc. I can be on a business trip and she just selects her movie and everything works for her without me having to be there to configure it.


My daughter will be able to select the movie she wants and start it up without any help from daddy before her third birthday and everything will be set up just as well as if I was doing it to show a client. I don't know of any other way to do that with one remote on a system as powerful and complex as mine with a user who doesn't understand the inner workings of the system.

Just as importantly, feedback allows you to skip steps that are already done. Many devices take a while to start up, or to complete a command, and you cannot do the next step on that device (or in the overall sequence of events being invoked) until that is complete and the device is ready again. Without feedback, you must always wait the maximum time that each device could take to recover from such steps. With feedback, your automation logic can check to see if it needs to power up this or that device, or switch this the projector to a new memory and so forth, and skip that step if the device is already in the desired state.


This makes a huge difference in the ability of the system to do what it needs to do in the least time required, and it can provide feedback that says, 'please wait, I'm working on it' so that the user doesn't have to wonder, is this working?


And yeh, the single button thing is very important. When I select a movie, it get a preview of the metadata. If I say play it, it powers up the Sony changer if required, powers up the projector and lexicon (HD Leeza is always on), changes the Lex and Leeza to the right inputs, and lowers the lights. And it it can do this in parallel. I.e. it can see if the changer needs to power on (which takes about 25 seconds), and if so, start that process and then continue on wiht the other stuff, and then at the end, it can wait for the changer to complete it's power on, then it goes to the media repository, gets the slot number, and selects that slot, and then switches to the 'now playing' screen which provides control of the changer and the full metadata info.


All that happens with the touch of a button, and no one has to know how to operate any of the hardware. They just have to press the Play button.

Quote:
Quite a device ! You let your wife in your theater when you aren't there ?


Art

Quote:
I'm not going to get into the ridiculous argument of what the proper amount or percentage is to spend on a control system, which is like arguing what the proper amount is to spend on a pair of speakers. I will comment that IMO your attitude is why we have a world of people frustrated with technology, from computers, to microwave ovens, to A/V systems. An A/V system that can't be used is worth less than nothing no matter what level of performance it has. And an A/V system that only one person in the family can operate (usually the husband) is a joke too. I can't count the number of systems I've seen that people never use because they can't use them. But they sure do sound good!


Useability is as important as performance (IMO more important)