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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know there are many different ways to take stereo cd music and make it surround (Pro logic 2, DLP modes etc..) but what is the best way... I have a pioneer reciever now that has DLP modes like dance and jazz that do an OK job of it but I wondered if there were any others that do it much better?


Thanks!
 

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Currently, I prefer the 6-Channel Stereo option on my Yamaha. Gives all eight of my speakers a work out.
 

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Meridian't Trifield mode does incredibly impressive things with 2-channel signals.


Doody.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys.. I am thinking of upgrading to a newer pioneer that has Pro logic 2 and that is why i was asking.. my only other question is will it be worth the upgrade? I have the dlp modes now that arejust dance and jazz etc.. but will the new PL2 modes be much better?
 

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I find all the surround modes to sound a bit off on all material intended for stereo playback, so I just use all channel stereo. However, I do have a collection of laserdiscs that were recorded in Dolby Surround. They sound amazing in DLP2, a clear and noticable step above DLP and older technologies.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Savageone79
I am thinking of upgrading to a newer pioneer that has Pro logic 2 and that is why i was asking.. my only other question is will it be worth the upgrade?
Absolutely worth the upgrade! Pro Logic II is capable of throwing a very natural and convinving surround presentation, especially with music. With 2-channel movie and TV material, the results sound pretty close to discrete 5.1-channel sources. The PL II Music mode is highly configurable, allowing you to tailor the soundfield to your personal preferences. Like any good matrix decoder, PL II can be dialed in to be so exciting that your head spins like Linda Blair, or so subtle that you don't realize the surrounds are working until you actually turn them off. Somewhere in between those two extremes will be the right setting for your tastes.


To answer your original question: the best "surround modes" I've heard are Lexicon's LOGIC7 decoding and Meridian's Trifield processing; followed by Pro Logic II, and then by Circle Surround II.


Best,

Sanjay
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Savageone79
Thanks guys.. I am thinking of upgrading to a newer pioneer that has Pro logic 2 and that is why i was asking.. my only other question is will it be worth the upgrade? I have the dlp modes now that arejust dance and jazz etc.. but will the new PL2 modes be much better?
The DSP modes suck. About the only way they are even tolerable is to turn down the "effect" to the lowest possible settings.


All-channel stereo is ok for a dance party, but really lousy for listening to music. It puts too much energy in the surround channels.


Pro Logic has one major flaw for music: it moves too much signal to the center channel. It would work IF the recording engineers mixed CDs in Dolby Surround, making conscious decisions about what to put in the center channel. But, for reasons that totally escape me, the music industry hasn't figured out that they should mix in Dolby Surround like the TV broadcast industry has been doing for years.


Dolby Pro Logic II is a huge upgrade. In the Music mode, you have the option moving far less signal to the center channel.
 

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Hi

DPLII is really quite remarkable followed by Dolby Headphone as far as useful modes for my type of use, although i'm not sure the latter is a dsp mode.


peter m.
 

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Quote:
To answer your original question: the best "surround modes" I've heard are Lexicon's LOGIC7 decoding and Meridian's Trifield processing; followed by Pro Logic II, and then by Circle Surround II.
Trifield is quite different compared to Logic 7 or DPLII. It's emphasis is not in ambience extraction (although it does that also), but in the sound redistribution of the 2ch source into 3 frontal channels by the way of energy preservation signal distribution and directional psychoacoustics.
 

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Hi,

Isn't DTS Neo 6 more like that as well?


Peter m.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by lwang
Trifield is quite different compared to Logic 7 or DPLII.
That's why I refered to it as "processing" rather than "decoding" (as in matrix decoding). The process itself may be "quite different" compared to L7 and PL II, but I happen to like it anyway.
Quote:
Originally posted by petermwilson
Isn't DTS Neo 6 more like that as well?
In principle, yes; but in implementation, no. Compared to the other matrix decoders mentioned above, I've found Neo:6 to be too unstable and too artifacty for use with music. It's tolerable with movies, but the competition is so much better that I never use Neo:6.


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Sanjay
 

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lwang,


"Trifield is quite different compared to Logic 7 or DPLII. It's emphasis is not in ambience extraction (although it does that also), but in the sound redistribution of the 2ch source into 3 frontal channels by the way of energy preservation signal distribution and directional psychoacoustics."


Logic 7 does both as well. I believe even DPL does energy preservation as it's one of the basic fundamental things you need for the front LCR array. What's different is that the psychoacoustic model L7 uses is quite sophisticated compared to the rather simplistic model described by Gerzon in his original paper on Trifield.


To its credit, Trifield has fairly sophisticated mathematics that allows it to do arbitrary NxM expansion across the front, but Meridian's only implemented the 2x3 matrix. It does work pretty well, though.


--Andre
 

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Besides energy preservation, Trifield also implements velocity and energy vector theory to stabilize the imaging. Without that implementation, it would be just Meridian's "Music" surround mode.
 

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The key difference between Trifield and L7, PLII, CS, Neo, etc, is that Trifield is passive--that is, no steering logic. It results in good stability as one might expect, but as frequency changes, so can the image location due to the different frequency shaping applied to L/R outputs compared to the C output. I have heard an instrument move laterally as it traverses the scale (not always, but just to say every process has it's side effects). It also imparts a small degree of timbre shift in the front channels and also from the low-pass filtered surrounds as compared with the 2-ch source. Because the surrounds are passively derived, this layer of coloration is subtle, but omnipresent.


Having said that, it was Meridian's Trifield and Music Surround modes that finally convinced me that when processed well, listening to music in 5.1 could be one's standard mode. Switching back to stereo became a disappointment. It was this benchmark that PLII had to address, and was used as a reference during its development.
 

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Quote:
It results in good stability as one might expect, but as frequency changes, so can the image location due to the different frequency shaping applied to L/R outputs compared to the C output.
Due to the way human perceives sound at different freq, Trifield applies different algorithms to the L & R signal depending on the freqeuency of the signal. Unless a system is properly configured and calibrated. The transition from amplitude difference between the LCR to phase difference might cause a shift in the position of the image when one method of localization by over brain takes over from the other.
 

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Maybe I missed it but CircleSurround ala Theta is another prime candidate. IMO, it is the equal of Logic7 and superior in some areas. Just not sure who all has license rights to it outside of Theta.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
So which recievers have which mode... do any reasonably priced ones have more then one of these modes available? I am thinking about getting one that has PL2 should i look for one with other modes ? I would really like to listen to my cd's in surround and have it sound good.. my current reciever just doesn't do a good job of that.
 
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