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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I have a fairly well lighted room that I want to use a projector in, on a very bright day with the shades closed it is fairly dim in my room but certainly no where near pitch black. Its kind of hard to explain exactly how well the room is lighted but I would say its about equal to just before dusk.

What minimum brightness in a projector would you recommend?

I have no idea what 500 or 1000 lumens are like.

Thanks in advance!



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James' DIY Speakers
 

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2500 lumens. Search JHouse or 38t or 21N for why.


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Joe

My current idea of the best value:

Boxlight 38t

Quadscan Elite

Panasonic RP91

RCA DTC-100

Da-Lite 100" 4:3 1.3gain

Studio Experience SE616's

and some other stuff.
 

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James, I'm certainly no expert as I have only recently jumped into the FP club with the NEC LT150. However, my room situation is close to your description: the LT150 is in my living room which is open on one side to the dining room and on the back side has an opening (about 5' wide) to my entrance room which has lots of windows. So there is a fair bit of ambient light, some of which I can minimize but during the daytime it's like your situation. The LT150 is rated at 800 lumens; right now it is a very bright, sunny day here and I just tried watching part of ESPN's college football preview. Result: acceptable. Certainly not optimal, but unless you're looking for critical viewing type conditions -- in other words if you're just looking to watch some sports or daytime TV, not set up for the ultimate movie experience -- it's good enough to see and enjoy the picture IMO.



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Paul Heroy

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Plus most of my critical viewing is done at night, I have a pitch black room at night. I don't see why I need any more than 700-800 lumens. What would the advantage be of having a 2500 lumen projector in a pitch black room?


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James' DIY Speakers
 

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The advantage is you will see things that you will otherwise assume are unseeable. The "why" is it makes you see detail that is otherwise too subtle to be noticed. If it goes unnoticed, ignorance is bliss, and no one knows the difference. But if you see your disks on a bright projector, it's like watching a different movie. More detail than in the theater. That's why.


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Joe

My current idea of the best value:

Boxlight 38t

Quadscan Elite

Panasonic RP91

RCA DTC-100

Da-Lite 100" 4:3 1.3gain

Studio Experience SE616's

and some other stuff.
 

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I own both the XP21N and the LT150. Whereas they are rated 2500 lumans and 800 lumens respectively, the XP21N doesn't look 3 times as bright, and probably not even twice as bright. The LT150 is rated a bit low, it is probably closer to 1000 lumens, while the XP21N is rated a bit high, it is probably closer to 1800 lumens. I have never had them going side by side yet though.


They both look excellent with DVD material (I do like the added brightness of the Sanyo though), and I have had better luck getting the XP21N to look decent with NTSC material.
 

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AHah!


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Joe

My current idea of the best value:

Boxlight 38t

Quadscan Elite

Panasonic RP91

RCA DTC-100

Da-Lite 100" 4:3 1.3gain

Studio Experience SE616's

and some other stuff.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by JHouse:
But if you see your disks on a bright projector, it's like watching a different movie.
So, in a pitch dark room, with a screen gain of 1.3, perhaps 120" wide 16/9, and a PJ emitting 2K5 ANSI lumens .. it wouldn't be to bright for the eyes?



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M. Risberg (Stockholm, Sweden)

AV consultant @ Intelligent Sound
 

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Joe and others who own these high lumens projectors,


I've not yet seen a projector perform which outputted more than a rated 1500 ANSI. Do you not think the black level suffers with these super bright projectors?


Bob Wood





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~ The Sultan of Cheap ~
 

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Not to pass myself off as expert as many of you like "The Sultan of Cheap" BUT I've looked at a lot of well set up projectors and IMO there just ain't no substitute for bright and colorful as in the Sanyo LCDs. PARTICULARLY if you are like the gentleman who started this thread who has ambient light issues (like I do).


Robert, black level and contrast is simply not an issue if you combine the Sanyo 18/21 with a Grayhawk. Is it 2500 lumens? Probably not, but then neither are these dimmo 800 lumen DLPs up to their rating.


Here's the acid test which the new Yamaha DPX1 flunked with flying colors, rainbow not included. MI2, the ending scenes on the island. The Yammie was way, way too dark. The Sanyo looks just like it did in the local big screen cinema. At the 2 x screen width seating distance, screen door simply isn't an issue. And this is without a Panny.


You recall all those greyish foggy battle scenes in the beginning of Gladiator? This projector delivers them complete with contrast and black level better than the movie theater. And, because of the brightness, they have a bunch of depth.


At the risk of finally attracting major flames, I'll say it again. The price DLP pay to achieve marginally better black and contrast level is that they are too damn dark. Every darn one of them. Period. Overall, the viewing experience suffers.


Hopefully, this will all be fixed with the next generation of DLP that have advanced color wheels, mirrors that rotate more (12 degrees vs. the current 9), hence allowing brighter output, and better electronics. Until then, when it comes to reproducing that cinema experience in less than ideal ambient light conditions, you just can't beat these Sanyo LCDs. Even with their sucky internal electronics that require you to add a box from hell like the Quadscan.


Dan
 

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Quote:
Not to pass myself off as expert as many of you like "The Sultan of Cheap"
That's laughable. When have I ever passed myself off as an expert? I know very little about all this (and have admitted that more than once).

Go back and read what I said again. I said I had not yet seen one of these things. And then I asked for opinions about how the high brightness affects black. Is that not a fair and reasonable question? So why the defensivness?


Bob


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~ The Sultan of Cheap ~
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
(I might tear up a little here) >>>>>


This statment brings the point across very well,thank you.

Perhaps one day I will see one of these 2500+ units in action or maybe even one day buy one, but for now I don't have $5000+ to spend , more like 1/5th that.

You have made it clear that while I may have fun watching a large picture on a 700-800 lumen set , there is much better pictures to be had if the money allows.




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James' DIY Speakers
 

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In the early 80's (I think) I saw a front projection system at Sears. Fold out mirror, curved 50" silver screen and one heck of a narrow feild of view/sweet spot. It was a close-out for $1600. I didn't make that in a month and I would never be able to come up with that kind of money. BUT, I justified it as follows: Big entertainment like a movie theater at home, will be used a whole lot, way more than any other toy like a motorcycle or sailboat, we'll save money by not going out so much, I'm only going to live once, it will last a long time, and most importantly, I can get it for $50 per month and improve my credit rating at the same time! I loved that TV. Star Trek looked fantastic. And I've justified every replacement for it in exactly the same way. Where there's a will ....


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Joe

My current idea of the best value:

Boxlight 38t

Quadscan Elite

Panasonic RP91

RCA DTC-100

Da-Lite 100" 4:3 1.3gain

Studio Experience SE616's

and some other stuff.
 

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Registered
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IMO if you want a projector you don't have to baby and worry about in regard to ambient light condtions you need at least 2500 ansi lumens. You can see an image during the day on lower powered projectors- but what are seeing-you are seeing a washed, pale image with no contrast that looks at you and says blah. I realize not everyone can afford 2500 ansi lumens but there is no point in telling people what they want to hear-if you want a big beautiful image during the day that looks good you are going to have to pay for it.


lenny Eckian


[This message has been edited by leckian (edited 08-26-2001).]
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by leckian:
IMO if you want a projector you don't have to baby and worry about in regard to ambient light condtions you need at least 2500 ansi lumens. You can see an image during the day on lower powered projectors- but what are seeing-you are seeing a washed, pale image with no contrast that looks at you and says blah. I realize not everyone can afford 2500 ansi lumens but there is no point in telling people what they want to hear-if you want a big beautiful image during the day that looks good you are going to have to pay for it.


lenny Eckian

I would think that most people who are using projectors are not using them in day lit rooms but at night or in at least semi-light controlled locations. In my case I have a home theater room that is light controlled, my projector can do 800/1000 lumens and I would be concerned that 2500-3000 lumens would overwhelm the room. Now I never tried a projector that bright but based on the room configuration I would be concerned that there would be significant light wash back from the wall and ceilings.


I think my real point is that you relay need to understand your viewing environment to best pick your projector. I would think that high lumen projectors may be a real negative in some configurations. Just as low lumen are bad in high ambient light configurations. It is a matter of picking the right tool for the job not just saying the bigger one is always best, otherwise you just may end up swatting flies with a sledge hammer.


Regards,


Brian


P.S. Does anyone else notice it seems like there is a set folks that give off a vibe like "this is my projector it is the best projector, everyone should have a projector just like mine, because no other projector is as good as my projector." It feels that there is a collection of people out there who get real attached to their brand of stuff and get all religious about it and anything else is some form of blasphemy. If you want to see this behavior in all it's glory go and check out the tvio folks. If you read the stuff over there you would think that tivo was the second coming and ultimate TV was the anti-Christ. I have never really understood this way of thinking, I know what I like about my stuff but I am sure my choices are not everyone's cup of tea. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
 

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I have compared an 1800 ANSI Lumens projector to a 700 ANSI lumens projector in my HT. Everything else kept constant. If you have a good bit of ambient light go with the high ANSI lumens projector - why? It cuts through the ambient light and you will get an image that does not look nearly as washed out as the lower ANSI lumens projector. The great equalizer is a fully light controlled room - this is where the lower ANSI lumens projector comes into its own. If anyone thinks that high light output gives you a better image in a light controlled room - forget it! Depends on the projector and how it is set up! I can think of a 350 ANSI lumens projector that in a light controlled room eats just about everything out there.


Cheers,


Grant
 
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