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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,


I am so confused. :( I am looking for a new receiver and narrowed my choices down to the Pioneer VXS-810S and the TEAC AG-9320D. The Pioneer claims to be 6.1, but I have read that it is really Matrix 6.1. Apparently, the if a receiver is really Discrete 6.1, it will contain the logo, "DTS-ES" rather than just "DTS." So this is where I am confused since the Pioneer just has "DTS" on the faceplate.


I contacted Pioneer and was told that the the VSX-810S "IS capable of DISCRETE EX and ES outputs AS WELL AS Matrixed AND simulated."


So is the Pioneer rep pulling one over on me or am I confusing all the terms?


Thanks,

Raymond
 

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Quote:
IS capable of DISCRETE EX and ES outputs AS WELL AS Matrixed AND simulated."
No such thing as DISCRETE EX.


The only DISCRETE 6.1 format out there is DTS-ES Discrete, and that Pioneer receiver looks like it cannot do it. It looks like it can only do Matrixed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've looked over the manual and specs and there is nothing that says anything about DTS-ES DISCRETE.


Not sure what is meant by simulated ES and EX. I think the rep is confused and trying to pull a fast one over you.
 

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Discrete means 1 amplifier per ch,

Matrixed means the use amplifier power from the other amplifiers to create the 6th ch..


So Discrete 6 ch has 6 amplifiers, one for each ch

Matrix 6 ch has 5 amplifiers, with the 6th being derived from the other 5.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hm... I was under the impression that Discrete DTS means that each channel is independent whereas DTS Matrix has the rear center signal coming from a combination of the rear left and rear right signals.
 

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 This LINK may help.

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DTS Matrix has the rear center signal coming from a combination of the rear left and rear right signals.
Correct.


Discrete and Matrix does not refer to the amps in a unit. It refers to the DTS-ES decoding scheme.


Regrettably, some MFGRs use '6.1' or 7.1' in the name for their receivers for marketing purposes and in this case it stands for the number of amps. However, this number format originally pertains to THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALLY RECORDED CHANNELS/SIGNALS on the source material, or dvd. So this in essence means that a '6.1 receiver' may not be able to utilize the 6th individual signal in a 6.1 DTS-ES Discrete DVD. It will then matrixed it instead and the MFGRs will say - sure it is 'compatible'.


Let's look at this from an encoding standpoint:


We have 5.1 and nothing else. Buying a 5.1 eceiver is easy. Everyone is happy.


Somebody decides that a rear signal can be encoded into the surrounds and decoded upon playback. Kinda like the center siganl on Dolby Pro Logic. This takes off and is called DTS-ES and DD-EX. Both are not true 6.1 formats. Which receiver to get? Look for one that has DTS-ES and something that talks about 6 channels from DD(or THX-EX).


Somebody at DTS decides that a separate rear signal can be put on the DVD along with the other existing ones. This takes off and is called DTS-ES Discrete and the original one is clarified to DTS-ES Matrixed. This is the only true 6.1 format. And there is no such thing as 7.1. Which receiver to get? Look for DTS-ES Discrete and look for something that talks about 6 channels from DD(or THX-EX).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you, Robert.


It is so very discouraging to hear so much confusion on such subjects. This is especially true since the e-mail I received was from a "Senior Product Specialist, Home Electronics, Pioneer Electronics of Canada, Inc., Markham, ON."


You'd think he knew what he was talking about.


When I read, "The VSX-D810S IS capable of DISCRETE EX and ES

outputs AS WELL AS Matrixed AND simulated (for 5.1 sources using 6.1

speaker configurations)," I interpret this to mean that the channels are actually independent and NOT just different amplifier channels.


Maybe he is referring to the fact that the receiver will take 6.1 input from DVD player. I noticed on the back of the receiver that the pre-ins allow for a center rear channel. So...maybe if the DVD player has a center out channel and provides the Discrete decoding, the receiver just takes that and outputs to the rear center. However, to the best of my knowledge, there are no DVD players that have Discrete 6.1 output.


Perhaps I need to ask if the Pioneer receiver has a built in ES and EX decoder.
 

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I would suggest you evaluate the other differences in the products you are considering. For example, are there differences in bass management settings--personally, I find flexibility there far more interesting than the surround format flavor of the month. There are a number of surround sound formats out, but we pay for the privledge of having them, and often never use them. How many DTS-ES Discrete DVD's are actually out? You may also want to have the dealer play the unit with a DTS-ES Discrete DVD in both discrete and matrix setting, so you can decide if there is much difference, taking into account though that there will be differences between DVD titles in the amount of rear steering.


Regards,

Will
 

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I would suggest you evaluate the other differences in the products you are considering.
Just what I was about to say! You gotta figure out your priorities. There really isn't a whole lot of DTS-ES Discrete DVDs out there right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
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Originally posted by Will Gibbons
I would suggest you evaluate the other differences in the products you are considering. For example, are there differences in bass management settings--personally, I find flexibility there far more interesting than the surround format flavor of the month. There are a number of surround sound formats out, but we pay for the privledge of having them, and often never use them. How many DTS-ES Discrete DVD's are actually out? You may also want to have the dealer play the unit with a DTS-ES Discrete DVD in both discrete and matrix setting, so you can decide if there is much difference, taking into account though that there will be differences between DVD titles in the amount of rear steering.


Regards,

Will
Will and Roger,


Thank you very much for the advice as I did take it to heart. I tested both units and decided to keep the TEAC. One thing that I found very odd was that the volume adjustment is not linear. It seems at the beginning of the volume, the first half of attenuation is very quiet and then when you pass the half way mark, an increase in SPL is esponential relative to the controls. That is the case with both.


I listened to both and it seemed the TEAC had much better low end punch. I am still not sure if it was a totally scientific comparison, but it seemed that way to me.


Also, the Pioneer had so many features, but I didn't think I would use them. Since my couch is right against the back wall, rear channels would be kind of weird as the speakers would be like headphones.


Thanks for all the great advice, guys.


Raymond
 
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