[Chuck Anstey]

I am looking for some opinions and suggestions on what I should do about my G70 and theater room.


I have a G70 in a bat cave in the basement projecting onto very smooth sanded wall board painted bright white. The image is 84" wide and is sufficiently bright but I could stand to go brighter. My wife suggested that we should consider getting a smaller digital projector because she doesn't like that giant beast hanging over our heads and she doesn't want to move it, not that we are moving any time soon.


The first thought and attempt was to sell the G70 and replace it with a JVC RS25 or RS35 but it appears that selling it is not a viable option and it wouldn't do much to defray the cost anyway. I am going to feel bad if/when I ever have to junk the projector because it is a damn fine one and still works. If it died then I wouldn't feel so bad about it because I have had it for about 8 years and gotten my money's worth.


The advantages of the JVC would be:

1. Quiet. The G70 is pretty loud and while I can live with it, I would definitely prefer less noise.

2. Fully resolve 1080p. Clearly the G70 cannot resolve full 1080p but it doesn't stink either.

3. Convenience. I am stuck at the moment using component cables to the G70 unless I get an HDMI card. That means I cannot play my DVDs upscaled in the HD players so I have to use my HTPC, which requires changing the connection to RGB and then back for HD.

4. Progressive format. Without the HDMI card, I can only watch 1080i for HD at the moment and I do see the scan lines but I can ignore them most of the time.

5. Larger and brighter. I definitely would like a larger screen and I think I could get both bigger and brighter with a new digital projector.


The cons of the JVC are:

1. 3D coming soon? Not that I care that much but if waiting a year gets the feature at no additional cost, maybe I should wait.

2. It isn't cheap and the economy is a bit rocky.

3. LED coming soon? If the advantages of LED are realized (low power, low heat, and no significant drop in brightness over a huge lifetime) and can come in at a price point close to current lamp projectors, lamp projectors are going to become nearly obsolete over night.


So I have many options from doing nothing at this time to just buying a new projector.


1. Do nothing. I watch plenty of movies now and it is still a great picture so just wait until it dies or an advance in projector technology becomes too compelling.

2. Buy the JVC and enjoy all of its advantages. Not my first choice as this isn't the best economy to lay out that kind of money and 3D/LED might be coming in a year or two.

3. Do the fan replacement to quiet the G70. Under $100 and pretty easy swap.

4. By an HDMI card for the G70 to at least gain the convenience of not swapping cables and progressive output, not that it can fully resolve it. Tough call to spend money on a projector that will be replaced at some point.

5. By a screen to improve the brightness of the G70. I have done much research on screens and I see many people say "Oh you can get near Stewart StudioTek 1.3 performance at much lower cost". What I read is "I can spend $1000 on a budget screen and wind up with effectively what I have now using my wall". It seems like if I want a real improvement I need to go all out for the StudioTek 1.3 and buy it in a larger size that will work for the future digital projector. However, that would run nearly half the cost of a new JVC and if I added the HDMI card I would be at half the cost.

6. Buy a video processor to compliment the HDMI card to improve the image quality for scope movies by using custom timings to eliminate wasted bandwidth on black bars. Might even improve 1.85 movies by using 720p over 1080p, maybe. Even used VPs seem to run around $500 plus the cost of the HDMI card so I'm back to spending money on a relatively soon to be replaced projector.

7. Buy a Panasonic 4000 or an Epson 8500 (if they ever get the bug fixed) to tide me over for about two years waiting to see what shakes out for 3D and LED to get nearly all of the advantages of the JVC. I just have to give up my black levels, possibly some color accuracy and/or deal with a greenish tinge, and might prefer the G70 image overall but this option would be cheaper than a new StudioTek screen.


Anyone have an opinions or experience on my dilemma?

 

[benareeno]

why ask a question like this? Would you really buy a new projector if someone told you to?? Ridiculous....if you're happy with status quo, then leave it be.

 

[draganm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey /forum/post/18191769


Anyone have an opinions or experience on my dilemma?

yes, saw the RS1 few years back and was blown away by the shaprness and light output. However instead of driopping $6K I replaced my painted screen with Draper M1300, running the latest greatest Moome HDMI 1.3 card, and a BD player running direct 720P or 1080P depending. Cost me about $1K total (bought the fixed screen used), but worth every penny.

the moome card is more than convenience, it's a nice upgrade from component cables. I just can't see spending $6K on an LCD?

 

[Prehjan]

Chuck, welcome to the forum!


Are you serious? you are asking us lowly stuck in the middle ages of projectors is you should "upgrade" to a digital?


Just start looking for a noiseless M95XXC and call it a day!


Draganm is right on the money also!


Just get yourself a better screen and maybe an outboard VP...also an Oppo BR and a Moome type input device won't hurt!


The Moome card is a must for us CRT'ers, not to mention a Lumagen and maybe some (2) two stage Goo systems paint for your wall!


All of the above will blow away any digital even with your G70. (Short of a triple chipped "uber digital" of course, and even then it is not by much...and not in all areas!


CRTs can do a lot more for you to reach that "visual nirvana" that we all have been looking for but so few of us find!)


Martin

 

[Chuck Anstey]



Quote:
Originally Posted by benareeno /forum/post/18192432


why ask a question like this? Would you really buy a new projector if someone told you to?? Ridiculous....if you're happy with status quo, then leave it be.

There are legitimate reasons to upgrade.


The advantages of the JVC would be:

1. Quiet. The G70 is pretty loud and while I can live with it, I would definitely prefer less noise.

2. Fully resolve 1080p. Clearly the G70 cannot resolve full 1080p but it doesn't stink either.

3. Convenience. I am stuck at the moment using component cables to the G70 unless I get an HDMI card. That means I cannot play my DVDs upscaled in the HD players so I have to use my HTPC, which requires changing the connection to RGB and then back for HD.

4. Progressive format. Without the HDMI card, I can only watch 1080i for HD at the moment and I do see the scan lines but I can ignore them most of the time.

5. Larger and brighter. I definitely would like a larger screen and I think I could get both bigger and brighter with a new digital projector.


I have asked around enough from people who did change from a G70 to one of the previous versions of the JVC and most agree that other than true black level, the JVCs as a whole are an equal or better picture. If I could get an RS35 for $2K I would have a new projector. However I cannot so I am looking for alternatives if they are effective uses of money.


Draganm,

Thanks for your input. It was helpful. I could get a Da-lite Cinema Vision 1.3 screen that was just big enough for the G70 for just over $1K but projector reviews showed that the 1.3 gain was really only 1.1. My wall is around 0.95 so I wouldn't get the gain I was looking for without going to screens costing over $2K. That is a pretty high price for a screen that would be too small for a future projector. If I get one large enough that it is "future proof" then I'm back to spending a lot of money.

 

[Prehjan]

Hello and welcome to this forum


seriously are you asking us a bunch of CRT'ers stuck in the middle ages of projectors whether you should "upgrade" to a digital???


Just start looking for a M95xxLC and call it a day!


It will resolve any signal that you can feed it and it will also be quite, not to mention a lot more capable than any "digital" (...short of a triple chipped uber digital, even then not by much and not in everything!)


Draganm is right...get a better screen and maybe an outboard VP...and a Moome input cards...now that one is a must for any crt'er! (Goo system has the (2) stage CRT paint that you can use on any wall that is prepared right and it is the best when it comes to painting a screen on!)


Good luck


Martin

 

[winduptoy]

Get the Moome card. I'm currently using an 84" Elite matte white screen. It cost about $250 up here 2 years ago and according to my wife and friends, it's plenty bright. Here's some screenshots:

 

[draganm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey /forum/post/18194353


I have asked around enough from people who did change from a G70 to one of the previous versions of the JVC and most agree that other than true black level, the JVCs as a whole are an equal or better picture. If I could get an RS35 for $2K I would have a new projector. However I cannot so I am looking for alternatives if they are effective uses of money..

I would venture to say that most of those guys jumped ship before a direct HDMI 1.3 input was even available for CRT. The new Moome card really takes it to a new level. 720P direct from BD player is wonderful to my eyes but scaling 1080P down to 1440 x 810 @72Hz is what I plan to do eventually.

Noise you can't do much about really, the G70 is just a small airplane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey /forum/post/18194353


Draganm,

Thanks for your input. It was helpful. I could get a Da-lite Cinema Vision 1.3 screen that was just big enough for the G70 for just over $1K but projector reviews showed that the 1.3 gain was really only 1.1. .

My Draper 1300 measures out at 1.25 , i'm very happy with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey /forum/post/18194353


My wall is around 0.95 so I wouldn't get the gain I was looking for without going to screens costing over $2K. That is a pretty high price for a screen that would be too small for a future projector. If I get one large enough that it is "future proof" then I'm back to spending a lot of money.

I don't think so? A Dalite fixed frame 2.8 gain hi-power, which is a very good choice for CRT IMO, is under $900. for 133 inch diagonal

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT


My Draper 106" diagonal brand new for $940.
http://cgi.ebay.com/DRAPER-253288-ON...item3efcd81044


so basically, you have an excellent performing machine in place, for less than $1400. (screen + Moome card) you can increase it's pic quality performance by

shaprness - up to 20%

color saturation, accuracy- 10 to 15%

light-output= up to 30%

Or you can spend 4 times that much and get the LCD + happy wife

 

[Curt Palme]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey /forum/post/18191769


Tough call to spend money on a projector that will be replaced at some point.

You'll spend more on a digital than on a CRT, unless your tubes are shot at this point. This includes bulb costs, and replacement of the unit if something dies on it, as most digitals aren't worth repairing, or simply can't be repaired.


If 1200 lumens isn't bright enough on an 84" screen, reduce your ambient lighting. To me, even 800 lumens on a decent screen should be more than enough. I can't see in a light controlled room why anyone would need more than 1200 lumens.


I agree with the others, get the Moome card, dial in 1080p like crazy, and enjoy. Even if a board or two needs repair in the next 5 years, there's a good chance that you'll get 5-8 years out of the set if the tubes are in good shape. I just retubed a G70, and it's killer.

 

[Chuck Anstey]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme /forum/post/18197290


If 1200 lumens isn't bright enough on an 84" screen, reduce your ambient lighting. To me, even 800 lumens on a decent screen should be more than enough. I can't see in a light controlled room why anyone would need more than 1200 lumens.


I agree with the others, get the Moome card, dial in 1080p like crazy, and enjoy. Even if a board or two needs repair in the next 5 years, there's a good chance that you'll get 5-8 years out of the set if the tubes are in good shape. I just retubed a G70, and it's killer.

Now let's be fair here. That is 1200 lumens peak assuming only 10% white but it can't put out 1200 lumens if the whole scene is pretty bright, like a bright daylight scene and drops to

 

[atlemusic]

I just done the oposite. I went from a full HD digital to a Sony G70 with Moome 1.3. and i dont regret it at all. Still today i'm really amazed by the picture compare to my last DLP

Move it backwards and get a 100" screen and you are safe under it

 

[ImaStar]



Quote:
Originally Posted by winduptoy /forum/post/18196516


Get the Moome card. I'm currently using an 84" Elite matte white screen. It cost about $250 up here 2 years ago and according to my wife and friends, it's plenty bright. Here's some screenshots:

Just want to say your screen shots look great!

 

[ImaStar]



Quote:
Originally Posted by atlemusic /forum/post/18199282


I just done the oposite. I went from a full HD digital to a Sony G70 with Moome 1.3. and i dont regret it at all. Still today i'm really amazed by the picture compare to my last DLP

Move it backwards and get a 100" screen and you are safe under it

What he said! I've done very the same thing going from a JVC-RS1 to a Sony G70. Went in Worst Buy's Magnolia room and saw the JVC RS-35 wasn't impressed.

 

[Curt Palme]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey /forum/post/18199211


Now let's be fair here. That is 1200 lumens peak assuming only 10% white but it can't put out 1200 lumens if the whole scene is pretty bright, like a bright daylight scene and drops to

 

[Chuck Anstey]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme /forum/post/18199374


My point is, I don't think you need 2000 lumens + with a light controlled room and a proper 1.3 gain screen. That's all.


AS for your hour count, that means nothing. Pull the lenses off the tubes, and check for phosphor wear. The tubes wear fairly quickly on a G70 under some conditions, so even at 2300 hours, yout tubes might be toast. Then again, they could be mint. Don't count on the hour meter, look at the tube faces for a far more accurate assessment.

The JVCs I mentioned aren't 2000 lumens, they are ~800 but would generally appear brighter than a G70 for the same screen size and I don't have a 1.3 gain screen yet.


I had my lenses off about 150 hours ago and the red and green were perfect. The blue had some burn around the edges. Given all the hours put on so far, I don't see them getting toasted any time soon.

 

[draganm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey /forum/post/18199211


I won't go with high power because it is retro-reflective and hots spots something wicked. I can see the hot spots on these lower gain gain (1.3) screens even when reviews claim there is none but I'm willing to ignore it for some additional brightness.

i've seen the high-power now in 3 different CRT home theaters. I didn't notice any hot-spotting that called attention to itself. I certainly don't see it on my Draper. Are you sure you weren't looking at 2.5 gain glass beaded?

With the HP there is some color shift from cooler to warmer depending on which side of the room you sit but it's uniform across the screen. My Draper is my first choice for CRT and screens up to 92" wide (106 diag.) Anything larger than that and I would pick the Da-lite HP.

If someone really felt niether of these was adequate, or was battling ambient light or whatever, then IMO just get the LCD and be done with it.

 

[Curt Palme]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey /forum/post/18199607


The JVCs I mentioned aren't 2000 lumens, they are ~800 but would generally appear brighter than a G70 for the same screen size and I don't have a 1.3 gain screen yet.


I had my lenses off about 150 hours ago and the red and green were perfect. The blue had some burn around the edges. Given all the hours put on so far, I don't see them getting toasted any time soon.

If that's the case, I'd leave everything alone. You'll need a convergence board repair sometime in the next 4 years most likely if it's original, everything else is pretty reliable in the G70.


I still don't see why you need more brightness than the G70, but that's just me.

 

[Tom Rosback]

This has been an interesting thread for me as I'm now wrestling with a similar situation. I have a G70 with a Moome card and about 3300 hours on it. I'm using a Stewart StudioTek 130 106" diagonal screen. I am getting 15 ft lamberts peak white off the screen, so it is plenty bright. I would like a new green tube because of a few small defects visible only to me. Specifically I have a bit of spot burn, three pinholes. At first I thought it was dirt on the screen. And I've got a bit of 2.35 burn visible as slightly lighter areas at the top and bottom of my 1.76:1 screen. It only shows up when there is a solid color background, as in sky shots, etc. Both concern me as I don't know how long a new green tube will last. Yes, I may be pushing the PJ harder than most would, but a dull picture at 10 ft-lamberts or less is not an option for me.


There are two things that I haven't been able to resolve. The first is convergence drift. I am a stickler for great convergence, and my G70 is drifting. I suspect it is aging caps on the convergence board. It now takes the PJ a full hour to 'settle in', and when it does, it looks fantastic. The other persistent issue is intensity scalloping on the left side of the picture. This is in some way connected to the moome card installation as it is not present when using my HTPC.



So, I'm still on the fence. I installed a JVC RS-25 in our neighbor's multi-purpose room last fall and the thing does throw an excellent picture. I calibrated it and was able to get it to 6500k +/- 50 from 10 IRE to 100 IRE with 100IRE pushing 15 ft-lamberts off of his 100" diagonal screen. Low lamp. I've never been able to get the G70 that flat. I'm now running +/- 200 K with the classic blue hump, and have never been able to get any better and still get what I feel is enough light output to make the picture 'pop'. Well, I have the old software, so I can adjust Gamma and get a very flat greyscale, but I have to do it every time as the settings don't stick on power down. Still not bad at all.


The JVC has excellent uniformity, very flat even in the corners. Blacks are not as good as the G70, but they are entirely livable nonetheless.


So my choices come down to fixing what I have, or getting a donor machine so I can swap boards, etc., to keep this thing alive. Cost will be about $1k, maybe less. A scaler will fix the scalloping issues, I'm pretty sure, but that would be another $2k or more. Or I can spend $5k and get a new LCOS machine and not mess with tweaking.


Hmmmm.

 

[Prehjan]

I also agree with Curt....CRTs are plenty bright and those light cannon digitals are very "hard" to watch!


Lumen output is not everything! it is the quality that counts and with a mid/higher end CRT it is very hard to beat across the board by a "digitals"!


My advice would be to get a decent screen and an input device...then concentrate on dialing it in just right. a G70 will do 1080p but not be able to fully resolve it like a G90 or a M95XXLC. (...so it will be soft!)


You might be better off just using 1080i which is very nice on a G70. like Curt said DO NOT get hang up on the specs!


Use 1080i and if money allows get yourself a nice Lumagen VP also. (...that one is a very nice addition to any CRT!)


Good luck


Martin

 

[draganm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Rosback /forum/post/18208813


This has been an interesting thread for me as I'm now wrestling with a similar situation. I have a G70 with a Moome card and about 3300 hours on it. .

which version, there's a significant (but not Earth shattering) difference between them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Rosback /forum/post/18208813


There are two things that I haven't been able to resolve. The first is convergence drift. I am a stickler for great convergence, and my G70 is drifting. I suspect it is aging caps on the convergence board. It now takes the PJ a full hour to 'settle in', and when it does, it looks fantastic. .

talk to Curt, he's an expert on upgrading this board wih better parts and you might have some Sanyo chips on there going bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Rosback /forum/post/18208813


So my choices come down to fixing what I have, or getting a donor machine so I can swap boards, etc., to keep this thing alive. Cost will be about $1k, maybe less. A scaler will fix the scalloping issues, I'm pretty sure, but that would be another $2k or more. Or I can spend $5k and get a new LCOS machine and not mess with tweaking.

Hmmmm.

forget the donor machine, it will be just as old and maybe have more hours than yours. Curt's flat rate for fixing the DC conv. board is very fair. New power coupling caps maybe a little extra?

Isn't a nice, capable Lumagen scaler now around $1K? Should all be well under $2K IMO. LCOS is tempting but $5K is serious money to blow, at least for me. I know there's guys on here with $100K systems