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What should I expect with a Professional Calibration?

3030 Views 21 Replies 12 Participants Last post by lcaillo, Sep 7, 2009

BuckeyeAmps

Discussion Starter · Jul 28, 2009

Hey all.

I have a Samsung PN50B550, which I watch Blu-ray's and HD-DVD's on in a totally dark room.

I bought the DVE HD Basics (Blu-ray copy) calibration disc and fined tuned my TV the best I could using Menu adjustments only (no service menu adjustments).

I love the picture, especially the blacks, but I am always wondering if I can get a much better picture, such as primary/secondary colors and whites (along with maybe even tad better blacks).........

So I contacted Chad (I believe he frequents these forums and does calibrations for Cleveland Plasma) and asked him for a quote.

I plan on scheduling a calibration with him within the next month.

What I wanted to know is what type of results can I expect from a fully professional calibration of this specific set?

I know it's not the type of question you calibrators want to answer, because of so many variables involved, but within a ballpark answer, will my picture quality/accuracy improve greatly?

Thanks all.

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1 - 20 of 22 Posts

GeorgeAB

· #2 · Jul 28, 2009

Please consider this opening post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021933 . No display system can look its best without being fully calibrated with professional grade instruments. You should expect documentation of the before and after condition of your display, referenced against video industry standard performance criteria.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,

G. Alan Brown, President

CinemaQuest, Inc.

A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

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BuckeyeAmps

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 28, 2009

I read your whole post and I understand exactly what you are saying and how it works.

The objective of a professional calibration is to tune the TV so that it displays an image/source in it's original recorded form, or as close to it as possible.

But (and sorry to dumb this down onto a "plain and simple" comparison)....how much of an improvement can I expect?

GeorgeAB

· #4 · Jul 28, 2009

No one can possibly say without actually seeing your current image quality. You are asking an unreasonable question.

D-Nice

· #5 · Jul 28, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus /forum/post/16898488

But (and sorry to dumb this down onto a "plain and simple" comparison)....how much of an improvement can I expect?

That depends on what A/V mode you are currently using and how far from reference that A/V mode currently is.

BuckeyeAmps

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 28, 2009

I know, I know.

I shouldn't have made this thread, because I knew asking this question and expecting an answer amid all of the variables would be impossible. Sorry.

Let me ask this then........if Picture Quality and Accuracy is what I want, would you recommend a professional calibration?

I.E. - For the price (I know that this type of job is a profession, and the price is perfectly justified), is the outcome worth it if I want the best picture possible?

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D-Nice

· #7 · Jul 28, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus /forum/post/16898563

Let me ask this then........if Picture Quality and Accuracy is what I want, would you recommend a professional calibration?

I.E. - For the price (I know that this type of job is a profession, and the price is perfectly justified), is the outcome worth it if I want the best picture possible?

Only YOU can answer these questions and YOU will have to wait until post calibration for an answer.

BuckeyeAmps

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 28, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/16898611

Only YOU can answer these questions and YOU will have to wait until post calibration for an answer.

......I know

It's just that, based on the price, some form of input/post calibration reviews from you calibrators would make the spending of this money a little easier to part ways with

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2

schroedk

· #9 · Jul 28, 2009

You're overthinking it...

As the others said, how much of an "improvement" you'll see depends entirely on your starting point, and how far away you are RIGHT NOW from the best picture (i.e. most accurate) your display is capable of. The way you should be thinking of it is pretty much in how you stated your last question: is the price justified in your mind when you know that you are watching the best, most accurate picture that your display is capable of? If the answer is yes, then by all means get a professional calibration.

I've had 4 different displays (soon to be fifth) ISF calibrated; 2 Kuro plasmas, a rear-projection DLP, and a projector (and soon my second projector). The DLP was my first ISF calibration, and the improvements were noticeable but not huge (more a limitation of the display than the calibration). However, the plasmas were significantly improved (although they looked great prior to calibration), in that the black levels that the Kuro is capable of was brought out to its full potential, and colors were just, well, right. Even my wife, who was at work during both plasma calibrations, immediately appreciated the improvement when she got home, and she really isn't as critical as I am. The projector was limited by the room primarily, but with my recent remodel the new projector calibration should help improve black level, colors, and light output as well as my ae3000u is capable of.

Since you've stated that you want the "most accurate" picture, an ISF calibration is almost a must. Prior to each calibration, I used DVE (or Avia) calibration discs, and it "looked good". However, when graphed before/after with an ISF calibration, I was significantly off of an "accurate" picture, and the professionally-calibrated picture was simply better.

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Michael TLV

· #10 · Jul 28, 2009

Greetings

You may as well come ask us how long a piece of string is.

While the question seems simple enough, there is just so much to it ...

And realize also that if you don't understand why the end result is the end result, it won't be worth much. Getting answers without understanding the questions is a waste of time. Like throwing a bunch of numbers on a table and telling you that one of those numbers is the correct answer ...

But you need to know what the question is ...

Worth is relative ... is a BMW worth it? Some say yes, some say no ... who is right, who is wrong? Is there a right?

If the goal is accuracy ... you have two paths ... you pay someone to do it ... and hopefully they explain it all to you ... or you go learn the entire process yourself ... and buy the equipment too. It's cost of your time versus the cost of paying someone to do it. IF your time is worth more to you than what it costs to get it done professionally ... then you have your answer.

How much difference will you see?

That is the loaded question ... because it is like asking for directions to NY City. We'd ask you where you are to start out ... and your answer would be ... "I don't know"

So that could mean the following:

You could already be in NY City ... but don't know it.

YOu are 10 feet from NY City ... but don't know it.

YOu are 1000's of miles away ...

Well since you can't tell us where you start out ... we cannot tell you how much of a difference you might see ...

Simple question ... but the answer is far more complicated.

regards

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BuckeyeAmps

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jul 28, 2009

Eye of the beholder basically.......I got it now!

Another question:

Once the calibration is done, will the changes done by the calibrator ever be lost?

Like, if the power goes out for a few days (worst case scenario) or I do a firmware upgrade?

Michael TLV

· #12 · Jul 28, 2009

Greetings

On the firmware ... yes ... you do it ... you lose it.

If done in the user menu ... write down the changes and you can input them in again.

If done in the service area ... it should stick.

Eye of the beholder is you.

We cannot see the world through your eyes so there is no way we could ever tell you if you would or would not see a difference.

Plenty of times where I calibrate the system and the client loves it ... then his wife comes down and proclaims that she sees no difference. Who is right?

Small differences to some are like a revelation ... and yet huge differences to others are like ho hum I don't see a difference. We don't know who you are and how you see the world.

Frame of mind also plays into this.

regards

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BuckeyeAmps

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 28, 2009

I understand that any changes made in the User Menu would be lost with a firmware upgrade/extended no power situations.

But could someone confirm that any changes made in the Service Menu would still remain present if I were to do a firmware upgrade later down the road or the set were to not have power for an extended period of time?

Michael TLV

· #14 · Jul 28, 2009

I've loaded firmware on my 2 year old samsung plasma and that reset the sm values.

so beware

regards

PlasmaPZ80U

· #15 · Jul 29, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV /forum/post/16899703

I've loaded firmware on my 2 year old samsung plasma and that reset the sm values.

so beware

regards

I have a small Samsung LCD HDTV and have been wondering if firmware updates reset the sm values. Is this a error or is Samsung intentionally doing this?

I got a service manual for my set and the firmware in the manual was older than that on my set so sm values differed in several places and there was actually a set of CMS settings on my set as opposed to none in the manual (called 6-color R,G,B,Y,C, and M).

tonyptony

· #16 · Jul 29, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus /forum/post/16898641

......I know

It's just that, based on the price, some form of input/post calibration reviews from you calibrators would make the spending of this money a little easier to part ways with

BCJ, if this helps, I'm a techno-schlub that enjoys torturing myself, so I decided to spring for a DIY calibration package. I had a suspicion of what to expect going in, but based on what I've learned and seen so far I can tell you a couple of things:

The guys who are really good at this and do it for a living I'm betting are some kind of good. This is not easy stuff. In my case like I said I enjoy acting like an idiot, but if you take advantage of the services of one of the good guys in your area (check the sticky in this forum) you should be very pleased with the results.
The rather limited work I've done so far on my own display clearly shows an improvement even over suggested settings, and I only sort of know what I'm doing (with some guidance from the good folks here). While I'm making no claim to ever being able to get the very last bit of perfection out of my own display, I think when I've learned more and can complete a decent full calibration I will be even more pleased.

Like D-Nice said, you'll have to be the judge in the end, but if you have someone good handling things you should be able to tell the difference.

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bslep

· #17 · Aug 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus /forum/post/16898380

Hey all.

I have a Samsung PN50B550, which I watch Blu-ray's and HD-DVD's on in a totally dark room.

I bought the DVE HD Basics (Blu-ray copy) calibration disc and fined tuned my TV the best I could using Menu adjustments only (no service menu adjustments).

I love the picture, especially the blacks, but I am always wondering if I can get a much better picture, such as primary/secondary colors and whites (along with maybe even tad better blacks).........

So I contacted Chad (I believe he frequents these forums and does calibrations for Cleveland Plasma) and asked him for a quote.

I plan on scheduling a calibration with him within the next month.

What I wanted to know is what type of results can I expect from a fully professional calibration of this specific set?

I know it's not the type of question you calibrators want to answer, because of so many variables involved, but within a ballpark answer, will my picture quality/accuracy improve greatly?

Thanks all.

Hi there. I am having Chad calibrate my Mitsubishi WD-82837 this Friday. I have had four professional calibrations from very reputable people that include Chuck Williams, Gregg Loewen and Eliab. After Chuck did my first big screen TV, I will never watch anohter TV in my Home Theater that isn't calibrated. For me, it's not the significance of the differences (that varies with the set), it's knowing that my grayscale and colors are where they should be and that my TV is performing at the best level it can be. I have read very good things about Chad and am looking forward to meeting him.

Chad B

· #18 · Aug 5, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep /forum/post/16933693

Hi there. I am having Chad calibrate my Mitsubishi WD-82837 this Friday. I have had four professional calibrations from very reputable people that include Chuck Williams, Gregg Loewen and Eliab. After Chuck did my first big screen TV, I will never watch anohter TV in my Home Theater that isn't calibrated. For me, it's not the significance of the differences (that varies with the set), it's knowing that my grayscale and colors are where they should be and that my TV is performing at the best level it can be. I have read very good things about Chad and am looking forward to meeting him.

Either I made this appointment in my sleep or there's a case of mistaken identity.

Windzilla

· #19 · Sep 4, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/16898529

That depends on what A/V mode you are currently using and how far from reference that A/V mode currently is.

Hi D-nice or anyone who wants to chime in.

I recently purchased a panasonic p42s1 and have been weighing options for adding a blu-ray player.

I already have a nice collection of DVD's and use a denon 2910 as my source. given my viewing distance is 9 feet, I was wondering,

would I see more returns in PQ from a ISF calibration, and sticking with my DVD's vs buying into blu-ray and not getting a calibration.

I have a feeling that, given this panels ability in the g10 and v10 series, i could get more bang for my buck from a calibration than from bluray

any thoughts?

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Michael TLV

· #20 · Sep 4, 2009

Greetings

Get a BD player and use the cinema mode on the tv ...

A calibration is a good idea if you also want an education with it. That way, you can take what you learn beyond just what happens to the tv itself.

regards

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

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