[btmoore]

As I am unsure how many read the HDTV sections I thought I would bring this topic up here as it directly affects our investment in our projectors. (Which some of us spent lots of money on unlike you Dell lt150 people http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif )


There appears to be circumstantial evidence that with the advent of CE manufactures, broadcasters and content providers falling all over themselves to implement 5C, DVI & HDCP. Our expensive and beloved HD projectors may no longer be able to receive HD content as there appears to be no plan in place to allow us to receive content through our RGB and component inputs. This would mean our HD content would be unavailable or downrezed to 480i or p. To me this is an unacceptable situation but I have to say I feel rather powerless to do anything about it.


Here is an article highlighting this http://www.latimes.com/technology/la...819jul26.story


Thoughts?


Regards,


Brian

 

[DanHouck]

In other words, anyone buying a projector should make darn sure it has a dvi input, right?


Or can this be provided on an external scaler for older projectors? A lot of people are using outboard scalers any way because of the weakness of the internal ones in most projectors.


Dan

 

[btmoore]

From what I understand unless your projector is DVI/HDCP or 5C/FW you are SOL.


It sounds like the content must be decrypted and decoded for presentation within the projector or display device. Ergo all current projectors that function based on 720P and 1080i component inputs are potential obsoleted with 5C protected HD content.


Regards,


Brian

 

[RobertWood]

Where there's a will there's a hack (er, I mean a way). http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Bob


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~ The Sultan of Cheap ~

 

[bossmonkey]

see here for my response to the author of the article:
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/015172.html#8

 

[deSade]

Where there are people being screwed, there's a lawsuit.


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"America: def. Just 200 million used car salesmen with all the money we need to bu guns and no qualms about killing anyone who tries to make us uncomfortable.

 

[dbldare]

Isn't Misubishi's "new" ad campaign called "The Promise"? If I recall correctly, they promise to offer "affordable" upgrades and compatibility means if the existing HD ready tv set becomes obsolete due to industry standards changing. Am I right here? And dose this DVI stuff apply to this "Promise"???


Thanks,

Mike


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Let's go out to the lobby.

Let's go out to the lobby.

To have ourselves a snack!

[email protected]

 

[TimHuey]

Quote:

Originally posted by RobertWood: Where there's a will there's a hack (er, I mean a way). http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Bob

Oh Heavens! Don't talk about hacking copyrighted material here you may offend sensitive ears. They'll shut down the site, the industry figures will not post here anymore, the owners will be hung, life will cease as we know it in the HTPC world....but I'm minimizing the situation too much. ;-)


Tim

 

[bluedevils]

I'd also be interested to hear tsites and JVC's reaction to this, though I understand there might not be much that can be done. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


I believe mitsubishi will be keeping good on their "promise".

 

[jalaram]

I'm surprised you didn't add a line about cats and dogs sleeping together. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


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Take care,

JC

 

[Digitalhorde]

yeah, really, NOTHING can be digitally protected with encryption anymore, Its not even worth trying. DVD got cracked with 6 lines of code.


It just takes one person to get mp3's of those new copy protected audio cds and spread them to the file sharing networks and they will be totally worthless.


There are smart cards now that can hack direct TV.


And this lame ass Digital encryption on HDTV will get bitchslapped within 1 week of when its released.


That being said, I'm glad I didn't buy a projector yet!

 

[Angeli662]

To Digitalhorde...

I am getting confused with this issue, and it seems you knows about the subject. My question is: I have a pj with DVI input and also have a HTPC with DVI out and also capable of receiving HDTV and both machine are with the person that put the HTPC together and he has them connected through DVI connection. I just spoke to him and he said the everything is working beautifully "the best picture he ever seen", he played DVD and watched HDTV. Now what you guys are saying is this would be eventually obsolete or I will have to upgrade my system? thank you Rick.

 

[Brian Hampton]

HI,


Would it matter that you can easily convert DVI to VGA? I looked into a video card (Radion VE) that had dual output: one for VGA, one for DVI. And there was a little passive device to convert DVI to VGA.


-Brian

 

[Gary P. Gibbs]

So the people (Like us) who buy the latest and greatest. We help advocate HDTV to make it viable in the market place. We beg and plead to get more programing, etc. We spend 5 times more to have it early and thus incur the bulk of the R&D costs. We are the ones who get screwed! Not the Joe six packs of the world. They don't know what HDTV is, and when they get a HDTV TV set a few years from now they will not pay close to what we have paid.


Obviously there will be class action suits and lawyers and congress involved. Why does it have to come to this. Can't we just all get along?


When I first heard of this a few month's back I thought it would just go away, etc. I guess not.


------------------

Gary


STOP DVI/HDCP!

DVI/HDCP! ~= HD-DIVX!!!

DO NOT SUPPORT JVC or anyone else who supports this!


[This message has been edited by Gary P. Gibbs (edited 07-26-2001).]

 

[cubTO]

That little passive device is only a pin adaptor, VGA signals have to be present on the DVI connector for this to work. It is not a requirement to have analog VGA signals on a card with a DVI connector, so don't rely on that.

However, it IS fairly easy to convert DVI to analog VGA externally.

 

[Gary P. Gibbs]

The proposed DVI scheme would be all digital (not using the analog lines) and would be encrypted thus requiring decrypting within the projector (which none of ours have).




------------------

Gary


STOP DVI/HDCP!

DVI/HDCP! ~= HD-DIVX!!!

DO NOT SUPPORT JVC or anyone else who supports this!

 

[Man E]

Quote:

Originally posted by cubTO: However, it IS fairly easy to convert DVI to analog VGA externally.

...except when it is encrypted using HDCP. The contracts that the manufacturers are signing make them conspirators in this scheme. They agree to maintain an encrypted signal until it hits a display-device embedded decoder (that has many restrictions emposed on it). Any and all analog outputs are agreed to be limited to no more than 600i, 480p, or 480i. I have heard each of these three limits mentioned, but since few, if any, of the existing crop of analog projectors sync to 600i, its lookin' like 480i/p. You might be able to upconvert that to 720/1080 (i.e., faux resolution), but what's the point in having been promised an HDTV-compatible device when you can't watch native HDTV?

Grrrrrr.



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The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!

Our Silent Angels

Please visit The Manny Page!

 

[DanHouck]

HDTV is already skating on thin ice because of the cost and irrelevance to most of "Joe Sixpack" America. This should finish it off.


But let me make sure I understand what you guys are saying. Even if I buy a projector with DVI, it won't handle these encrypted signals, is that correct? And I won't be able to get a "box" to put in line to remedy this problem?


If the above is correct, time to bring out the vicious dogs (lawyers)!


Dan

 

[smchan]

Quote:

Originally posted by DanHouck: HDTV is already skating on thin ice because of the cost and irrelevance to most of "Joe Sixpack" America.

Hey, I resemble that remark! But you might think of me as a high tech *******. I keep telling a buddy, if I weren't married, I'd have a double wide and a $100,000 car. He always adds, "And a smokin' home theater too, right?"


Instead, I got a 3,000 sq foot house and a Camaro. (Smokin' home theather is currently being designed by Mr Erskine.)


We hillbillies need our HDTV. Not much else to do for entertainment 'cept eat squirrels and flirt with our sisters.


Sam

 

[Man E]

Quote:

Originally posted by DanHouck: HDTV is already skating on thin ice because of the cost and irrelevance to most of "Joe Sixpack" America. This should finish it off.

The recent sales trial at Walmart is either testiment to the viability of widespread HDTV utilization, or the first of the fire sales for the soon-to-be-obsoleted gear. These sets, in mass production, can easily come close to the price of NTSC sets. Eventually, everyone either stops watching, or they get a new set.

Quote:

But let me make sure I understand what you guys are saying. Even if I buy a projector with DVI, it won't handle these encrypted signals, is that correct? And I won't be able to get a "box" to put in line to remedy this problem?

No external box. That would imply analog outputs which are illegal under the HDCP agreement. There may be a small chance of a upgrade, but only Mitsu has made any mention of this sort of program (and the end result of this is also unclear).


Quote:

If the above is correct, time to bring out the vicious dogs (lawyers)!

Woof!



------------------

The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!

Our Silent Angels

Please visit The Manny Page!