|Originally posted by Ddavidson|
Who is talking about high end products?
We are talking about $700-800 mail order gear, no one mentioned anything about "results" all that is mentioned was to have a listen to both and make up your mind. He has one already so he is 1/2 way there.
Just why is that such a bad thing?
Why should he not do it if he can?
Why do you think that I was talking about you? It was a common example about subjective evaluation of the meaning "sound quality".
Nothing wrong is in the wish of listening before buying, I would recommend it as well
|I can't get over number crunchers total aversion to what you are actually buying audio equipment for "Listening".|
It becomes obvious that people who live and die by measurements as some form of exclusive "buyers guide" to audio satisfaction, are just seeking some sort of easy justification for a purchase. Manufacturers marketeers love this method of buying. Sort of like a "buy me" because I read better mentality.
Well, not in my case
I am always trying to find imperfection if I hear it ... and not justify my purchase ... I can confirm this statement with my modifications. But ... I had been able to improve the sounding because I understood what is the reason of imperfection and found the way how to fix it. Another way could be - to buy stuff without imperfection, if you can find the one "100% satisfying" ... can you? I can't ... at almost any level. This is why I am so happy concerning PB10-ISD, it doesn't need any modification ... it is a smart solution, allowing us to use THX (or standard bass management) electronic crossover in AV processors and receivers without paying for the passive one (with it's proprietary design, matching with the speakers, phase distortions, etc.) in the sub-woofer ...
What are those "electronic crossover" or "bass management"? They are digital filtering algorithms, used in DSP software, therefore they have no phase distortions of analog filtering. I would prefer to use such filters in other speakers as well, instead of the standard analog filters between the tweeters and midrange drivers in majority of modern speakers ... and we have a great example of such approach already: NHT new Xd DSP Powered Speakers.
|People are being lead down the garden path of falsely believing numbers as the sole reason of audio worth when that is so totally bogus for what at the end of the day is a personal and subjective subject (audio reproduction).|
Its funny but marketing based on numbers no matter how you stand on the issue really has an effect on peoples beliefs or disbeliefs. For some people who are into such beliefs its like taking the pill that unknown to them contains nothing that will effect them.
Based on your suggestion, all engineers have to make the equipment just using their hearing systems, and anyway they would be wrong, because it is their personal hearing, which is not suitable to everyone else.
There is no magic in AV science, Sir ... we just need to understand some common principles, discovered and explained by such people as Nelson Pass, Charles Hansen, David Griesinger, Robert Stuart, etc. and read AES materials, then we will know more and will be able to predict the limitations in equipment.
|Audio is about personal taste and perception and reading more into it is getting way too close to marketing dribble for my taste.|
One is all you need for the differences will be obvious or not.
If audio is only a personal taste, why are you in AV science forum? In this case it is the same as to share your opinion about the taste of your breakfast then ...
|Due to room effects and achieving a balance without cancellations most people just stack two sub-woofers for the headroom gain. So as long as you level matching within these limits you know only the headroom will change. DBT is great if you can. But of course your only justification is for you ears not everyone else.|
How about your family members and your friends? Do you intend to dominate them with your taste or build separate room with the separate equipment for each member of the family?
We KNOW how to compensate room effects (here is a nice article about it, for example http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm
) - it is not a rocket science ... We know a lot of other things ... and finally, sound quality is not a subjective matter ...
|Sound quality generally refers to the quality of the audio output from various electronic devices.|
Sound quality can be defined as the degree of accuracy with which a device records or emits the original sound waves.
|When specified as quality of reproduced sound, it refers to the fidelity with which the original sound event is transmitted from one location to another via a sound-generating device. "Sound quality", in this context, characterizes the capability of the reproduction system to convey an impression close to the original one.|
What means "close to the original one"? It means no distortions, no changes in spectrum
, the same or similar level of FR and sound pressure, etc. The difference between the original sound and the reproduced sound CAN BE MEASURED ... Do you personally like the guitar sounding or not has no relation to the sound quality of the musical system, reproducing those guitar sounds ...
The same with sub-woofers. It's task to be considered as having good sound quality is to reproduce the original sound wave, recorded on the media as close to the original as possible - without your personal preferences!!! In this case it should produce less distortions, be linear to make no changes in spectrum, have less delay, produce enough sound pressure - exactly the points, which I have mentioned before. We need to achive quality of the original sounding in our systems, then we can adjust a level of volume, timbres, sound stage, surround modes, etc ... in accordance with our personal preferences. But if we will try to design devices without the common rules, that will be a chaos ... The reason to create the THX standard was to forget about the chaos in audio mastering and equipment and start to use the common standards ... to make multi-channel stage as close to the original one, created by the audio engineer ...