AVS Forum banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone...


I am thinking of buying a LCD this coming weekend and was hoping you could help me out a bit. The two tvs I am looking at are the LG 42LD550 and the Samsung ln40c650. I am lost on which on to buy since I heard good and bad about each. For example, I will be using it mainly for movies and ps3 gaming. I have read that the samsung does NOT display 120Hz processing very well especially with fast-paced games. I am still doing research and searching the forumns but I don't want to drop the money for 120Hz if I cannot even use it. Any suggestions from you knowledgeable folks? Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Excuse the primer, but it's getting very quiet at work before the holiday and I need something to do. Just a few points of clarification to your question...


120hz is the screen refresh rate. There is no question of a monitor's ability to function at 120hz. It either refreshes 120 times per second or it doesn't.


Motion processing (called AMP by Samsung) is a feature enabled by but independent of 120hz (which is why the marketing guys so often link the terms together). When on, this feature will use software to create new frames that help to 'smooth out' blur and judder on LCD TVs (developed because LCD technology isn't as strong as CRT or plasma at displaying fast motion).


In other words, the TV itself will 'make up' and display information to smooth transitions between frames of the original source data. Many people (myself included) tend not to like this effect since it adds an 'artifcial' look to the material and also requires processing time & effort between the source input and TV display (and bastardizes the source material).


Note that you can totally disable motion processing on many 120 hz TVs, meaning that the set will display only the frames in the source material. Said another way, 120hz TVs will always refresh 120 times per second, the only question is whether they show exactly the frames from the source (motion processing off) or create new frames to 'smooth' out picture transitions in the source feed (motion processing on).


Input lag is a different issue mostly unrelated to motion processing and 120hz. All digital TV sets have to do some sort of processing to the source signal before it can be displayed on the screen and this processing usually creates a small lag between source feed and on screen. The more processing, the more input lag. Since motion processing is a form of signal processing, it stands to reason that motion processing on will increase input lag vs. motion processing off.


This is why most sets will offer a 'game mode' (not the same thing as the 'game' settings for color, brightness, etc.) that shuts most processing options off and allows for minimal processing time between signal receipt and display.


As a very general rule, LCDs tend to have the worst reputation for input lag, meaning that the minimum time required for basic processing is still greater than that of other technologies. That said, many LCD manufacturers/sets have managed to achieve totally acceptable lag times, making it a non-issue for gamers.


Unfortunately, Samsung doesn't tend to be one of those manufacturers and has a poor reputation for input lag results (even with all processing options turned off). I play games on my LN60C630 and don't notice any lag, but then again, I only play with others in co-op or head to head mode (i.e., on the same screen) and am probably not sensitive enough to feel the lag anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
And just in case you were wondering why 120 hz and motion processing seem to go hand in hand...


NTSC material is broadcast at 60hz, meaning that a set must refresh 60 times per second in order to show all information in the source material (just assume this is a fact, I'm ignoring the 'behind the scenes' work that is required to convert all material to 60hz).


When sets suddenly have the ability to refresh more than 60 times per second, some options open up. 120hz sets can refresh twice as many times as is necessary to display every frame of the source material. This means that there is an 'unused' refresh cycle between every frame of source material.


With no motion processing, the 120hz TV will show each frame of the 60hz source twice in order to fill out the 120hz pattern. With motion processing on, the 120hz TV will create (interpolate) a new frame to insert between the frames of original material (60 frames of source material plus 60 frames made up by the TV equals 120 frames).


So, motion processing cannot be done unless the set can refresh more times per second than is required by the source material (which opens up 'gaps' between source frames). 120hz TVs enable the use of motion processing, but motion processing is not the same as 120hz.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,479 Posts
Double, I would explain it this way.


1) Frame Rate doubling (120 Hz) or quadrupling (240Hz) is there to reduce motion blur with fast moving material including sports, some action movies, and some games.


2) Motion smoothing is designed to reduce the jerkiness, or "judder" that occurs when film-based content is displayed on a TV - say, when a camera slowly pans across a scene. Eliminating judder can make movies look like they were shot with a video camera, an effect (soap opera effect), that you might not like.


Having separate control of each of these features allows for virtual elimination of the soap opera effect without disabling motion blur reduction.


That's it. I see no reason to make it any more complicated than that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,242 Posts
Good primer and also a good simplification by spyboy. All of that being said, my vote is a big two thumbs up for the Samsung C650. I have a 2008 Samsung A650 and a 2009 Samsung B650 and love both of them as much today as when they were removed from the box.


I hope you will be very happy with your new LN40C650.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for your replies. It is much appreciated.


I am currently leaning towards the LN40c650 BUT went to a local electronic store (BB) this evening and am more confused. I spoke to a "Sales Rep" there and he said for what I was using the TV for I should go with a Panasonic TC-P42S2 or a TC-P42G25 Plasma rather then an LCD. I have been to that store many times and others have also told me to go with the plasma. Like I stated, the TV will be mainly used for PS3 gaming (FPS gaming to be exact) and some TV/movie watching. I am assuming I want something (LCD/Plasma) that will not give me blurred results. I have looked through these threads for the past week and have come down to these TVs. I would like to spend less but I would rather spend more for quality. What do u all think...

Samsung LN40C650 OR one of the Panasonic plasma's listed ...OR....Something I may have over looked.
Thanks again and Happy Thanksgiving!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim /forum/post/19541677


Good primer and also a good simplification by spyboy. All of that being said, my vote is a big two thumbs up for the Samsung C650. I have a 2008 Samsung A650 and a 2009 Samsung B650 and love both of them as much today as when they were removed from the box.


I hope you will be very happy with your new LN40C650.

I am leaning towards this TV but still have a little more thinking to do. By the way, have you used your B650 for gaming? If so, how is it? Thanks again for your reply. Every bit definitely helps!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,242 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamster001 /forum/post/19543479


I am leaning towards this TV but still have a little more thinking to do. By the way, have you used your B650 for gaming? If so, how is it? Thanks again for your reply. Every bit definitely helps!

I use my primary A650 for gaming, but I am certainly not considered a hard core gamer. It's fine for my usage... no problems at all. The B650 is only hooked up to a Blu-ray player.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim /forum/post/19544060


I use my primary A650 for gaming, but I am certainly not considered a hard core gamer. It's fine for my usage... no problems at all. The B650 is only hooked up to a Blu-ray player.

I have heard the Samsung LCDs have terrible lag when it comes to playng fast-paced games such as Call of Duty FPS's. I love the tv overall but do not want to buy it if it is not goig to meet my needs or wants of PS3 gaming and movies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Wow, I was going to make the exact same thread/question when I woke up this morning. I have been doing research on the Ln46c650, which seemed like a really good TV for what I needed. However, last night I stumbled upon the 46LD550. Speculation said it might be one of the TV's as a doorbuster, but who knows. Something that is really good for both TV's, at least for me, is the USB XviD play. I've been going to stores throughout the past month getting feels for them as some of them look amazing and other TV's look like total crap(not these two). Both TV's have similar specs, but the LD550 has 2.4ms over the 4(c650). After finding a 2.4ms TV that has similar specs, and the USB play, I am so confused as to which to buy. I'm leaning toward the LG because it's 150$ cheaper than the Samsung.


Something I am completely confused on is in the "Official LD550 , etcetc" thread, there was a discussion about the "IPS Panel?" Is there anything specifically in specs that I should be on the lookout for? I'm not too sure how or what the IPS panels affect on the TV.


I'm hoping to get a new TV and a Xbox 360 for under $1,000. Purchasing this TV(LD550) seems that budget is completely reasonable, and might even be under $1,000 which would be fantastic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hattipper /forum/post/19545790


Wow, I was going to make the exact same thread/question when I woke up this morning. I have been doing research on the Ln46c650, which seemed like a really good TV for what I needed. However, last night I stumbled upon the 46LD550. Speculation said it might be one of the TV's as a doorbuster, but who knows. Something that is really good for both TV's, at least for me, is the USB XviD play. I've been going to stores throughout the past month getting feels for them as some of them look amazing and other TV's look like total crap(not these two). Both TV's have similar specs, but the LD550 has 2.4ms over the 4(c650). After finding a 2.4ms TV that has similar specs, and the USB play, I am so confused as to which to buy. I'm leaning toward the LG because it's 150$ cheaper than the Samsung.


Something I am completely confused on is in the "Official LD550 , etcetc" thread, there was a discussion about the "IPS Panel?" Is there anything specifically in specs that I should be on the lookout for? I'm not too sure how or what the IPS panels affect on the TV.


I'm hoping to get a new TV and a Xbox 360 for under $1,000. Purchasing this TV(LD550) seems that budget is completely reasonable, and might even be under $1,000 which would be fantastic.

Glad I could be of some help. I am totally at a lost on wether I should get a plasma or LCD. Plasma would be great for the basement setting BUT not if I moved it to the living room later. I have a huge bay window in the LR and it may result in to much glare
I am leaning toward the c650 LCD but am really concerned about the input lag and also the 4ms reponse time. I am in the process of reviewing the LD550 TV. Good luck in your quest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I already decided I'm not going to get a plasma just because the fact that there is still a chance of burn-in's or IR. I'm not sure of the difference, but spending a significant amount of money on a nice TV, I want it to last me. The last TV i bought was almost 10 years ago, and it's a 13inch fat back(haha). That one is still going strong, but I think it's about time to upgrade.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top