[thecutter]

I have a Pioneer Pro-151fd and a Sony 52XBR4. The Pioneer is bigger; the image quality is about the same. In fast action, the sony is more pixelated. In still images, the Sony is sharper and the Pioneer is smoother.


I don't understand what people are looking frantically for Pioneer PDP's. If I didn't get a good deal, I would not have gotten it.

 

[dlplover]

Thanks, I needed a good laugh. You either don't really own one, have your lighting setup wrong, or something. The only LCD's presently that compete on a level with a Kuro are in the $10k+ range. LED-backlighting in the consumer range just hasn't developed enough. In addition to the problems inherent in LCD, low-subfield LED arrays exhibit flashlighting on their blacks.


You sound more like an average joe kind of watcher rather than a tweaker since you don't seem to care much about PQ past a low baseline. That's perfectly fine, but it doesn't suddenly put the XBR in league with Pioneer or anyplace close to it.

 

[ClarkeBar]

All Pioneer Kuros are considered to be above standard in many respects, not the least of which is black level. As a total package they are still highly prized, even with improvements in competing technologies. What's not to understand? I'm sure there are lots of folks who wouldn't mind taking that 151off your hands.

 

[BigZAJ]

I must agree, having owned a Sony 52XBR4 for about 6 hours (black levles and ghosting were so terrible it made me sick) there is absolutely no comparison to that TV and a Pioneer Pro-151FD. The pioneer panels absolutely blow most (if not all) LCD panels away and are noticeably better in many aspects of picture quality even when compared to other plasma TV's.


If you are seeing comparisons with the Pro-151FD and a Sony 52XBR4 then something is majorly wrong with the Pioneer or its setup.

 

[emelius]

sell it & get LASIK eye surgery...


do it soon, though, while you still have a shot at finding a used 151fd at a good price

...

 

[saildoc]

Then I watched the super bowl at a friends house who had an older elite plasma. OMG!!! Never seen anything like it. Looked into getting one found out they are done making them the limited on hand stock was quickly vanishing... sorry you don't like yours.... sell it.. prices are going up fast.

 

[NYpanda]

We have a Sony 52" XBR4, and I consider it to be a really nice display. I've had no issues with it personally, and it has served us well over the years. I understand where the original poster is coming from, but disagree that the XBR4 is on the same level as the Pioneer 151fd. If I was to live in a perfect world and someone offered me an exchange for a 151fd, I'd do it in a heartbeat without the slightest bit of hesitation or regret. I think most others on this board would as well, unless someone was sentimental torwards their TV's.


I understand where you're coming from cutter, to most average people they'd be quite happy with an XBR4 (I still am) and not pay the premium to move into the Pioneer 151fd territory. To the discerning eye, people that want the absolute best, and the videophiles out there though - the 151fd is in a different class.


Geesh guys, go easy on the guy. To the average person out there that's not consumed by running with the Jones' of the world, it's not an entirely heinous question as you make it out to be. Down with the blasphemer, eh?

 

[dlplover]

You misunderstand. I came out and said that I didn't look down on him for not caring about the difference. That's not the point. It's fine for people to like whatever display they want. From a technical perspective, the XBR is nowhere close to a 151fd.


This is why people are eager to pick up Kuros. Plasma are better than LCD's. Pioneer were the best plasmas and Panasonic so far has dropped the ball on keeping the Kuro magic alive. It's that simple. If Panasonic starts making plasmas again that aren't designed to self-destruct their PQ in under a year, I'm sure people will stop worrying so much about Pioneer plasmas and move on. Until that time or until something better comes along, people who care a great deal about TV or movies and want the best on a budget will look for Kuros if they can afford them. There are comparable LCD's, but they cost $10k or more for a comparable 50". Time will outdate the Kuros, but at present for the price you can't do better from a PQ perspective.

 

[NYpanda]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover /forum/post/18244149


You misunderstand. I came out and said that I didn't look down on him for not caring about the difference. That's not the point. It's fine for people to like whatever display they want. From a technical perspective, the XBR is nowhere close to a 151fd.




This is why people are eager to pick up Kuros. Plasma are better than LCD's. Pioneer were the best plasmas and Panasonic so far has dropped the ball on keeping the Kuro magic alive. It's that simple. If Panasonic starts making plasmas again that aren't designed to self-destruct their PQ in under a year, I'm sure people will stop worrying so much about Pioneer plasmas and move on. Until that time or until something better comes along, people who care a great deal about TV or movies and want the best on a budget will look for Kuros if they can afford them. There are comparable LCD's, but they cost $10k or more for a comparable 50". Time will outdate the Kuros, but at present for the price you can't do better from a PQ perspective.

No disagreement whatsoever with the latter, and well said.

 

[dlplover]



Quote:
Originally Posted by NYpanda /forum/post/18244486


No disagreement whatsoever with the latter, and well said.

If the OP was being genuine, then I obviously didn't mean to offend, but the two displays are in a different league. It's something like saying a Ford Focus is about the same as a Mercedes or a Miata. To some people this is probably true, although most people will notice a considerable difference.


I read his post as a troll post and started to respond accordingly, but decided to go into greater depth if in fact the OP was serious. I'm still honestly not sure which way to take it. Either way, I find it hard to believe that someone could see the two side by side and think the XBR4 had the same PQ as the 151fd. When I have friends over etc... they all comment on my KRP and are just wow'ed by it in a proper lighting environment vs. their whatever.


OP's post intentionally or unintentionally read like one of those shill reviews on amazon or newegg and I'm still not really sure it's not. We get those all the time on here. There's definitely room for improvement on Kuros, but given the compromises on consumer DLP, LCD, and plasma that are in current production, there isn't anything that can compete overall with a Kuro. The XBR4 may be brighter and sharper, but the MLL will be much higher and as OP noted it's far more pixellated in motion. Kuro = smooth motion handling, low IR issues, deep blacks, accurate colors, good contrast, dithering, and potentially panel buzz. Compared to the tradeoffs from other sets there's not much in the way of comparison.


If you look at cnet's recent article about the rising black levels on panasonics, you'll notice they mention black level is one of the most important aspects of PQ. Deep blacks mean you have more gradations available which means better, more reliastic shading and a more lifelike picture. You can ruin a perfectly good picture with the wrong settings or the wrong lighting though.


I really don't mean to be condescending here if any of this comes off that way. The fact that I spent the time to clarify my position should be indication enough of that.

 

[NYpanda]

I didn't mean to start up a heated debate about it. It's just that I've seen some people that aren't as enlightened or up to speed or even completely new to the HDTV world (yes, there's still people like that), and they ask a question that is genuine - then some people make persnickety or sarcastic remarks in response to that person; as if someone asking such an obtuse question (to the smart alecks of the world) should be raked across the coals accordingly. Poor form in my opinion. I'm not saying that's what you intended or that you fall into that category, as I've read many of your posts and know that you're not like that. I guess my underlying message is that people shouldn't be so quick to judge other people's opinions and dismiss their perceived perception because it differs from majority consensus.


I know that you didn't mean to be condescending, but it just came across that way. Perception is a funny animal on the internet, and often times there will be misunderstanding and judgement rendered based purely upon syntax and the written word. In this case, no harm and no foul. At this point, I also don't know whether he was pulling everyone's leg or not, but regardless I wanted to at least give him the benefit of the doubt.


Think of this situation from a new perspective. What is the average person's buying habits? Of course they vary across a wide range. Some people shop impulsively, some want the best bang for their buck, some want the very best money can buy, others do a great deal of research, and others may fall somewhere inbetween, et cetera. Say for example an average person just stopped in a store with no technical knowledge, fell in love with an HDTV (lets say the XBR4 from yesteryear), and bought it on the spot without ever having seen a Pioneer.


-- Are they technically wrong in their thinking that the XBR4 is every bit good as a Pioneer Pro-151fd? Absolutely and unequivocally YES!


-- Should their happiness and contentment with said XBR4 be scrutinized under the microscope, despite not knowing something better exists be cause for mockery? No, not in my opinion.


Like I said earlier, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. Anyway, enough about that from me. I'm not arguing with you about the comparison, because I've been in agreement with you all along about that. I just don't feel that he got a fair shake from everyone without knowing more of the background of said person, right or wrong he may be in everyone's eyes.

 

[DocuMaker]

Maybe the OP tends to view mostly with a lot of lights on or in a sunlit room. Kuro worshippers who boast of the amazing black levels and say it destroys all LCD's usually leave out the part about the necessity for controlled lighting in the room.


I'm confident a Sammy B8500 will outshine the Kuro in a bright room. My 500M does not have amazing blacks on sunny days. So no, you do not need a $10,000 LCD to beat a Kuro. A $2500-3000 LED/LCD can beat it--you just need a bright sunny day and lots of windows.

 

[MrEastSide]

Pioneer plasmas look pretty amazing. I only wish they weren't so ugly. I know you're watching the screen, not the TV, but man, those TVs are bulky and ugly looking!

 

[tbird8450]



Quote:
but man, those TVs are bulky and ugly looking!

My 500M is 2.5" thick. That's certainly not the thinnest TV around, but bulky? Really?

 

[thecutter]

I have both sets. I'm not totally convinced. Everytime I wattch HD content on the Sony, it is like looking out a window. Black levels are good.


The Pioneer is used mainly for movies. It is not as sharp Secondary to dithering. I must have the wrong setings because frankly I ddon't see it as superior. It is a great set. As matter of fact, I paid less for the Pioneer than Sony so cost is not involved in decision.

 

[thecutter]

BTW, the Sony is in a bright room. Pioneer in dark room with no window.


Sony is 5 inches thick; pioneer is 3 inches thick.

 

[ge0man]

????

 

[thecutter]

Why all the ????? Geoman?

 

[dlplover]

Plasma in general will be a little smoother than LCD in terms of the image. For a bright room you could take a look at Samsung or Panasonic plasmas. Samsung tend to be a little "sharper" than Pioneers.


Personally, I would pay for a calibration if it's in a dark room and you're still having issues with the PQ. Is your source feed Blu-Ray? What's your video chain (receiver, player, etc...)?


Your setup is sensible - one for bright and one for dark. For some reason I read that as you had both in the same room and were comparing them. Get the Pioneer calibrated and it's likely you'll be far happier with it.

 

[thecutter]

I use an Oppo BDP83, Integra DHC 9.9 and Denenon 3930ci. All fed via HDMI.


May be I should get it calibrated.