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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I used to work at frys and i've heard velodyne, polk (DOPE speakers), infinity, bose, jbl, and sony subs, and out of those I remember for every price range velodyne was the best and it wasn't even close. I rocked a sub $200 vx-10 (only one in my price range after sale and shady open box, hehe) and am more than happy with it. This was a couple years ago.


Now my cousin is in the midst of buying a home theatre system, a lil nicer than mine, could probably drop UP to 4 bills on a sub. As far as up to right now, i'm telling him get a velodyne hands down, don't even waste time looking at anything else. BUT lately i been creeping on online forums and have been noticing all these underground companies being mentioned, like paradigm, b&w, etc. I have no experience with any of these.


If there is anyone out there that has experience with velodyne, please let me know if there is anything else out there that is in the same league at the $3-400 range. Please, only let me know about a company if you have personal experience with velodyne and can compare it accurately with a velodyne. All velodyne comparison help is appreciated, thank you.


Again, i know there's a million companies out there, and it gets very confusing when people just name off brands because they've heard about them, PLEASE only reply if know of something and can compare it head to head with velodyne, i'm already a scatter brain as it is and this will make the replies much more helpful and useful for me.


Oh yea, and this is for 100% movie application, gonna get a 5.1 and putting it in a dedicated theatre room that's roughly 15X20ft. thanks in advance!!
 

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If your cousin has ~$4K, then for less than $2500 he could get two Hsu VTF-15H or two Chase Home Theater 18.2s. Each one may offer serious competition to a top of the line Velodyne.


Because his room is not that large, it is possible that he could go with a pair of smaller subwoofers but the above two are a good starting point.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwinkler /forum/post/0


If your cousin has ~$4K, then for less than $2500 he could get two Hsu VTF-15H or two Chase Home Theater 18.2s. Each one may offer serious competition to a top of the line Velodyne.


Because his room is not that large, it is possible that he could go with a pair of smaller subwoofers but the above two are a good starting point.

4 bills = $400
 

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wrinkler, he is saying 400, not 4k.

At 400, I would be looking at the Hsu Research STF2 , BIC Acoustech PL-200 , Lava LSP12 , or the Elemental Designs A2-300 . I think any of those will be a better comparative value than Velodyne. Velodyne makes good subs, however they just don't offer as much performance for the money as these internet direct subwoofer manufacturers do, unless you get really good deals like the way you did. By the way, B&W and Paradigm are hardly "underground" companies, lol!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ /forum/post/19506984


wrinkler, he is saying 400, not 4k.

At 400, I would be looking at the Hsu Research STF2 , BIC Acoustech PL-200 , Lava LSP12 , or the Elemental Designs A2-300 . I think any of those will be a better comparative value than Velodyne. Velodyne makes good subs, however they just don't offer as much performance for the money as these internet direct subwoofer manufacturers do, unless you get really good deals like the way you did. By the way, B&W and Paradigm are hardly "underground" companies, lol!

I agree, I had an older Velodyne until recently and it was not their lowest end one from the time by any means. I replaced it with a Lava LSP12 (under $300 shippped) and the difference is huge!


I don't feel that Velodyne is what they used to be, at least at the lower end. ID companies such as Elemental Designs, HSU, and Lava offer much better VALUE at this price point, and just beyond $400 there is SVS. You will probably end up paying double for a Velodyne that is comparable in performance to one from one of these ID companies
!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastynice /forum/post/19505336


I used to work at frys and i've heard velodyne, polk (DOPE speakers), infinity, bose, jbl, and sony subs, and out of those I remember for every price range velodyne was the best and it wasn't even close. I rocked a sub $200 vx-10 (only one in my price range after sale and shady open box, hehe) and am more than happy with it. This was a couple years ago.


Now my cousin is in the midst of buying a home theatre system, a lil nicer than mine, could probably drop UP to 4 bills on a sub. As far as up to right now, i'm telling him get a velodyne hands down, don't even waste time looking at anything else. BUT lately i been creeping on online forums and have been noticing all these underground companies being mentioned, like paradigm, b&w, etc. I have no experience with any of these.


If there is anyone out there that has experience with velodyne, please let me know if there is anything else out there that is in the same league at the $3-400 range. Please, only let me know about a company if you have personal experience with velodyne and can compare it accurately with a velodyne. All velodyne comparison help is appreciated, thank you.


Again, i know there's a million companies out there, and it gets very confusing when people just name off brands because they've heard about them, PLEASE only reply if know of something and can compare it head to head with velodyne, i'm already a scatter brain as it is and this will make the replies much more helpful and useful for me.


Oh yea, and this is for 100% movie application, gonna get a 5.1 and putting it in a dedicated theatre room that's roughly 15X20ft. thanks in advance!!

Do you mean Internet Direct when you say "underground companies"? The reason many people on this Forum buy Internet Direct is because they don't have to pay the markup that the retail B&M sellers charge to cover the cost of a showroom.


Velodyne makes some fine subwoofers that are in the systems of some very experienced listeners, but those Velodynes tend to be the expensive DD-15 and DD-18.


You will be lucky to find someone with experience with both the low end Velodynes and comparably priced Internet Direct models.


With all due respect, you seem to think that your Velodyne is great so why not just recommend a comparable Velodyne model to your cousin cause you can't listen to the Internet Direct subs before buying.


The Veldoyne DLS-R 12 is a little more than $400, but is a decent B&M sub.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/19509908


Do you mean Internet Direct when you say "underground companies"? The reason many people on this Forum buy Internet Direct is because they don't have to pay the markup that the retail B&M sellers charge to cover the cost of a showroom.


Velodyne makes some fine subwoofers that are in the systems of some very experienced listeners, but those Velodynes tend to be the expensive DD-15 and DD-18.


You will be lucky to find someone with experience with both the low end Velodynes and comparably priced Internet Direct models.


With all due respect, you seem to think that your Velodyne is great so why not just recommend a comparable Velodyne model to your cousin cause you can't listen to the Internet Direct subs before buying.


The Veldoyne DLS-R 12 is a little more than $400, but is a decent B&M sub.

yea, I meant internet direct sellers. aww man, no way to test em out??
...that was gonna be my next question


I was actually recommending a velodyne, but then I was thinking what if there's a whole other world of subs out there. For example, I used to think subs from jbl and polk were pretty nice, then I found out about velodyne, I was amazed that something at the same price could sound so much better. So i'm just curious that maybe there's something a step above velodyne.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmpBlast /forum/post/19509405


I agree, I had an older Velodyne until recently and it was not their lowest end one from the time by any means. I replaced it with a Lava LSP12 (under $300 shippped) and the difference is huge!


I don't feel that Velodyne is what they used to be, at least at the lower end. ID companies such as Elemental Designs, HSU, and Lava offer much better VALUE at this price point, and just beyond $400 there is SVS. You will probably end up paying double for a Velodyne that is comparable in performance to one from one of these ID companies
!

Really? what velodyne model did you have before? How is the new one better, like it gets deeper? louder? smoother? more precise?


What's ur set up as far as the other speakers in your system? Mostly movies or music?


haha, sry bout all the questions, but as was stated above me since i can't listen to any of them myself i guess i gotta get a real good description through the help of experienced people like you.


Also, how do the internet direct companies work? Lets say I get a sub and its busted or something goes wrong shortly after getting it, do I have to pay all the shipping in order to get it handled?
 

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First, I would like to start off by saying that Paradigm and B&W are not "underground" by any means. They are high(er) end speaker companies. Paradigm subs cost several thousand dollars. When buying ID (Internet Direct) you just have to trust other people's reviews and experiences with them, like AmpBlast with his Lava sub. I would check into the subs ShadyJ has mentioned.


Since you're relatively new here, don't be scared off when you see people criticizing subs costing several thousand. There are just a lot of really really picky people here (especially in the DIY forum), but that's not always a bad thing. =)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
thanks for the replies guys, keep giving me any info or experiences u guys got. I love music and home theatre, it makes such a big difference when you have good quality stuff. Just wanna make sure I end up getting something that i'm happy with, and for good value. I'm a sucker for sales and good deals
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 /forum/post/19510247


First, I would like to start off by saying that Paradigm and B&W are not "underground" by any means. They are high(er) end speaker companies. Paradigm subs cost several thousand dollars. When buying ID (Internet Direct) you just have to trust other people's reviews and experiences with them, like AmpBlast with his Lava sub. I would check into the subs ShadyJ has mentioned.


Since you're relatively new here, don't be scared off when you see people criticizing subs costing several thousand. There are just a lot of really really picky people here (especially in the DIY forum), but that's not always a bad thing. =)

haha, my bad, i guess they seem underground to me since i had never heard of them til last week. I'll probably dive into some of those companies a little later today when i get time to check out their websites in detail.


I got no beef with people criticizing expensive equipment, it dont turn me off, I personally don't think too highly of bose, I know they do have certain advantages, but the disadvantages are HUGE and in my eyes outweigh any of the good.


The only thing that can get annoying sometimes, as I experience a few years ago on internet forums when building my car audio system, is when people just rag on other companies even if they've never heard them, or try to build up companies JUST because thats what they own. I don't get that feeling on this website tho, seems to be more of people just giving their honest opinions on what they've heard, so its cool
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastynice
Really? what velodyne model did you have before? How is the new one better, like it gets deeper? louder? smoother? more precise?


What's ur set up as far as the other speakers in your system? Mostly movies or music?


haha, sry bout all the questions, but as was stated above me since i can't listen to any of them myself i guess i gotta get a real good description through the help of experienced people like you.


Also, how do the internet direct companies work? Lets say I get a sub and its busted or something goes wrong shortly after getting it, do I have to pay all the shipping in order to get it handled?
I can't remember the model Velodyne that I had before I got rid of it, but it was older, more than 10 years old, but a nice sub for it's age. It was a 10"

with 12" downfiring passive radiator. Yes, my new Lava LSP12 digs deeper, is much louder, smoother, more precise, all of the above! You would need at least a DLS-4000R from Velodyne to compete with this, and even then it would normally cost you about double what the LSP12 costs!


My 7.1 setup is nothing special, just some nice JBLs, but it sounds great in my space. I listen to mostly movies but music sounds great with the Lava as well, well behaved and not muddy or boomy for a ported sub. I don't know how experienced I am compared to others on here, but I know quality when I hear it, and know a good value as well.


If the sub is damaged during shipment the ID company remedies it somehow, but if you just are not satisfied with the sub, you are stuck with return shipping. That is the chance you take, but nothing ventured nothing gained!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nastynice
that lava lsp 12 posted above looks monster.

http://www.lavasubs.com/12_inch/powe...subwoofer.html


I've never seen a sub with double ports. What does this accomplish exactly? What does this sacrifice?


I like how they have the 30 day free trial
The picture of the LSP12 makes it look bigger than it really is. The double ports are just part of the design and how it accomplishes its tuning frequency, I am not aware of any sacrifices with this. All that mattered to me with this is that the ports are in the front and not the back for my placement of the sub. For the price I paid for the LSP12 with the AVS discount, I can't imagine a better built better looking better performing sub, it truly speaks value on all levels.
 

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I owned a 10 inch Velo that was about $300. I just got an Outlaw EX and its not even close. Hard to compare since the Outlaw was $200 more and 40 lbs heaver
 

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While Velodyne does make quality subs, there is a whole world of subwoofer companies out there that will spank a Velodyne at the same price point. Like others have said on here, when you buy from an ID company, you don't have to pay the mark up (middleman fee) that you do when you buy from a Fry's or Best Buy. Plus, typically, you will get a higher quality sub for the same price. While I wouldn't say I am an expert with subs since I just recently bought my Hsu ULS-15, I can tell you that I now understand the difference between a low end subwoofer and a truly excellent subwoofer. Hsu makes excellent subwoofers and I would recommend them hands down. I was lurking and asking questions about subs for a long time and learned quite a bit. To be honest, $400 will not get you top end bass, but from my lurking in the Lava thread, the 12" Lava sub sounds like a real steal. It was reviewed by some members here that own much more expensive subs and found it to be a very nice sub for the money. If you can save up money, from what I have read, the Hsu VTF-15H is a monster sub for the money. It's definitely more expensive at $879+shipping & tax, but I think you would be VERY happy with that. It's very loud and digs down deep (sub 20Hz). Other than that, I would recommend checking out Aperion Audio for their speakers. They make excellent speakers and the quality is top notch.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ /forum/post/19506984


wrinkler, he is saying 400, not 4k.

At 400, I would be looking at the Hsu Research STF2 , BIC Acoustech PL-200 , Lava LSP12 , or the Elemental Designs A2-300 . I think any of those will be a better comparative value than Velodyne. Velodyne makes good subs, however they just don't offer as much performance for the money as these internet direct subwoofer manufacturers do, unless you get really good deals like the way you did. By the way, B&W and Paradigm are hardly "underground" companies, lol!

Good list of subs to give the OP.


Yeah, B&W and Paradigm are more like sky-high, rather than underground.
 
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