[sallyfields]

Hello all,


I have have a question about what is considered small in reference to a center channel speaker. My AVR allows me to choose between sml and lrg for the center channel. From reading it says that the difference between choosing sml and lrg equates to whether or not LF signals will be sent to the center channel or not (ie. choose lrg and it sends LF, choose sml and it does not send LF to the center channel).


My center channel speaker is a Klipsch 8ohm 50 watt max with 2 4" round speakers and a horn tweeter in the middle.


Would this be considered a lrg or sml center channel speaker ?


The same question applies to my rear surround speakers. They are Klipsch 8ohm 75 watt max with a 5" round speaker and a horn tweeter. They are actually considered bookshelf speakers.


Would these be considered lrg or sml for rear surround speakers ?


Thanks for any and all information,


Duke

 

[John Robert]

Duke (or Sally?):


Small does not refer to speaker size, but rather the speaker's ability to handle low freq info. With few exceptions and assuming the presence of a decent sub, you will set all speakers to "small" and send the LFE to your sub(s) only.


John

 

[xandypx]

The question of "Large" or "Small" comes down to the bass management and crossover set point in your reciever. When the setting is small. all bass below the crossover setting is redirected to the LFE channel and to your sub, which usually has a better chance of producing cleaner bass at low frequency.


If the speakers are set large, all bass that is in the sound track for that speaker (in your question, center and surrounds), will be directed to those speakers, and not to the sub. You will loose whatever bass that your speakers are incapable of reproducing cleanly, and possibly distorted bass near their lower end of their frequency response. You didn't indicate your exact speaker so it is unkown where this point is.


4"-5" woofers may go down to 75Hz, but won't play this bass as cleanly, or as loud as your sub should.


THX recommends all speakers set at small and a crossover at 80Hz so that there is little to no gap in the bass response of your overall system. All bass 80hz and below is redirected to the LFE channel (your sub).

 

[DrSpike69]

Your center is most likely not a full range speaker (20Hz - 20 kHz), thus you would set it to small.

 

[overboosted]

What about an RC-35 and RF-35s

Should they be set at small too?

 

[DrSpike69]

If they do not extend down to 20 Hz, then yes.

 

[Addicted Help!!]

I have always gone with big when the center has 6 and 1/2 mid woofers and not 5 anda 1/4 because they go much lower in the mid scale and when the center also has a high mid woofer like a 4 inch, so it is a full range speaker. If it has the 2x5 and a 1/4 which 90 percent do then it is small. You can play it both ways and here the diff and when I got the 6 and 1/2 dual with a 4 and tweeter then large sounded right and when the other it sounded hollow and overworked. Very good question because with 70% of 5.1 tracks coming out of the center 90 percent are not made for that theory. In the theater it is the biggest speaker next to the sub.


I was so happy when I finally got a center with the same exact mid driver as my mains, because now the side to side is seem less and so much fuller.

 

[phitheta219]

Ok,


Heres my semi-answer as well...


I have Klipsch Speakers as well. I have the older Synergy line [I'm assuming you have the new Synergy linesince the center has 4 inch woofers]


My l/r has 2 8 inch woofers and a horn tweeter, my center has Two 61/2 inch woofers and horn tweeter, and my surrounds have 6 1/2 inch woofers in them...


I'm using the Denon 3803, and I set up my l/r for large using the LFE+Main setting. I set everything else to small...


Seems to work for me...


I would definately set your center to small, as well as the surrounds. I don't know what you are using for L/R though...



EDIT: I dont know what your budget is, of if you can return the Center speaker... but assuming both are a non-issue.. I'd either 1) return the center and get a larger one or 2) use the center withthe 4 inch speakers as a back surround in 6.1 configuration, and buy a larger center...


Just my .02 cents.


Trust me, you'll easily see and appreciate the difference a larger center makes.



Monte

 

[DrSpike69]

Just a small comment. The size of a driver does not tell you if it is a full range or not, only the frequency range can.


Sound quality is affected for the worse when a speaker is asked to reproduce frequencies that it can't. The higher the listening level the more noticeable it will be.


Happy listening.

 

[JorgeLopez11]

Quote:

Just a small comment. The size of a driver does not tell you if it is a full range or not, only the frequency range can. Sound quality is affected for the worse when a speaker is asked to reproduce frequencies that it can't. The higher the listening level the more noticeable it will be.

DrSpike69 is absolutely correct. Remember that every frequency value below AC line freq (60 Hz in North America, 50 Hz in Europe) would demand a lot of juice to the amplifier in use. So in most cases the best thing to do is to choose small for mains and center, unless you have a powerful receiver or power amp, and your speakers can go as low as at least 40 Hz

 

[xandypx]

Again, just my $.02.


The RC-35 has freq response 56hz - 20kHz +/-3db

The RF-35 has freq response 37hz - 20khz +/-3db


IMO: best case senario... your reciever allows setting different crossover settings for the front L/R and the center.

The center crossover is set to 60hz.

The Front crossover is set to 40hz.


All speakers are set "small". This sends the frequencies that the speakers can handle to those speakers. The lower frequency below 60 and 40 respectivly are sent to the sub.


Worst case: Crossover set to 60hz. Speakers small. All under 60hz redirected to sub. No major loss of the 40hz-60hz freq from the fronts, just rolled off to the sub.


If you have the ability to add mains + LFE (like the Denon 3803 does), you could select this option in the LFE setup, and see how much bass cancellation you actually get from having the 60hz - 37hz duplicated by the sub and the mains.


I believe that I read elsewhere that in movie soundtracks there is little below 80hz in the front speakers anyway, so you may only notice a difference in music.


YMMV.

 

[DrSpike69]

Don't forget that the crossover is not a brick wall. You are best to go an octave above the lowest your speaker can handle. (Try adding 10-12Hz to the lowest frequency the speaker can handle and set it at that.)


Setting a crossover just a few Hz above will still send frequencies below what the speaker is rated, thus you can still introduce distortion.

 

[hectic1]

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike69 Don't forget that the crossover is not a brick wall. You are best to go an octave above the lowest your speaker can handle. (Try adding 10-12Hz to the lowest frequency the speaker can handle and set it at that.) Setting a crossover just a few Hz above will still send frequencies below what the speaker is rated, thus you can still introduce distortion.

True, the x-over is not a brick wall...however you are actually best going a full octive over the F3 point...in this case they would be best setting the x-over at 80hz IMO.

 

[DrSpike69]

Quote:

Originally posted by hectic1 True, the x-over is not a brick wall...however you are actually best going a full octive over the F3 point...in this case they would be best setting the x-over at 80hz IMO.

I absolutely agree with your opinion. I just simplified a bit I guess.

 

[DMF]

sallyfields, think of the Small/Large setting as having less to do with the speakers, and more to do with the amp. Even if you have speakers that can handle 20Hz (and your little bookshelves can't), it's doubtful that a receiver can supply the current for it without screwing up the rest of the frequencies, or even nearby channels.


Receivers are built with everything running off a single power supply. While a single amplifier (channel) fed by the power supply can support the rated power output (e.g. 100W), when you try to drive 7 of the little buggers to 100W, you will bring the power supply to its knees.


Now think of when you get those loud, low notes. It's when you are getting them on all channels.


Unless you have very capable amps (probably separates), you should shunt the low notes off to the sub, and let its dedicated power supply handle it.


In other words, in most cases, ALL speakers should be set to Small.

 

[xandypx]

Quote:

Originally posted by hectic1 True, the x-over is not a brick wall...however you are actually best going a full octive over the F3 point...in this case they would be best setting the x-over at 80hz IMO.

Although I left the above post, I have to totally agree with this statement.


I guess I was thinking of how to produce the fullest range from the speakers... not the best way.


I certainly would perfer the 37hz - 80hz range being produced at full SPL

from my 12" sub than from a 8" woofer that has begun to roll off..

 

[JorgeLopez11]

DMF,

Compared to yours, I guess I oversimplified my recommendation

 

[DMF]




So did I. It's a complex topic. Notice I didn't even mention crossovers.

 

[JorgeLopez11]

Yes....you´re right. This hobby always has a beginning, but hopefully not and end