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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There have been a couple of threads on lip synch delay and plasmas. I have noticed that on my Pio 503CMX, there is a noticeable lip synch delay, and it really bugs me. AFAIK there are two solutions to this: 1) change the settings for the center channel on your pre/pro or 2) get the Key Digital Native rate card.


There was quite a furor over this card a while back. Since the I haven't heard much. Key Digital lists the card on their website:

http://www.keydigital.com/detail.asp..._ID=KD-PIO768P


The specifically mention that the card includes "Audio propagation delay compensation."


Since my pre/pro delay is already idealized for my front projector, and my plasma is in a different spot in the room, I need to look at an alternative to the use of my processor. So in my case the Key Digital would seem to be the ideal solution. As a bonus it also has TWO DVI HDCP inputs. The only drawback is the price. Is this card available from any retailers/internet or otherwise, instead of buying from Key Digital directly, and is this card available now?


Do other Pio owners notice the lip synch delay?
 

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I never had a lip-synch problem with the Pioneer, but I also didn't have an HD Leeza processing video. It's whatever your video processing it that determines the delay, not the display.


The Key card ships 2-4 weeks after the HD Leeza ships. The HD Leeza ships soon.


Mark
 

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video1,


I'm not sure, but I think another possible solution is to change the Pure Cinema mode (and maybe digital noise reduction) on your plasma?

I believe I noticed huge audio delays when I had Pure Cinema mode activated on my 433CMX. I do not have Pure Cinema activated and I notice no audio sync issues.


Regards,

John Flegert
 

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video1,


Are you sure it's not your audio system that's causing the lipsync delay?


If the only reason you want to get the KD card is for lipsync delay, I'm not sure you understand what the card is used for. It's a scaler, that "incidentally" has audio delay propogation in order to reduce the lipsync delay caused by the video processing (Which should not be that high to begin with!).


There are two other alternatives that you don't mention:

1. Get a new A/V receiver (a higher end one like an Onkyo/Integra mid or high end unit) that has a lipsync setting on it.


2. Get an audio delay circuit. Vigatec sells these (albeit an expensive unit).


The KeyDigital card is for video processing, NOT audio delay processing.


Rogo,


From what I can recall, they were talking about 6 weeks after the HD LEEZA was shipping (not 2-4 weeks).
 

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Sorry, Ofer, 6 weeks after HD Leeza then. :)
 

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I'm confused -- it sounds like you're all saying that the plasma is delaying the audio. I don't see how that's possible. If it is possible, I don't see why you'd be running the audio through the plasma in the first place, most plasmas have sucky built-in sound systems. Am I understanding this right? If so, the best solution would be to pull the audio OUT of the plasma, not to try to correct it, which would just muck it up more.


Now, if the video is delayed, that's a different story. But the fix would be to delay the audio. And the best place to do that would be using a delay at your tuner/receiver/amp/audio-source. The best place would NOT be anywhere internal to the Plasma.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
Sorry, Ofer, 6 weeks after HD Leeza then. :)
Michaellucky has posted today - 2 months after the HD Leeza (which is soon). To me, it sounds like July or August for the card.
 

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FWIW here is Michael's quote from the processor thread located here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...15#post2163315

Quote:
Originally posted by michaellucky


HD Leeza will be out very soon! Pio card will follow 2 months after HD Leeza is out. SDI to DVI video adopter is in the works and will hopefully be introduced at CEDIA.

Thank you
By the time it comes out it'll almost be time to buy a new display... :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks everyone for your responses. To clarify, I am absolutely sure my lip synch delay is NOT the receiver/processor. That's becuase I don't have the plasma hooked up to my surround system yet. Furthermore, I can see the lip synch delay when I compare the image on my direct view el cheapo tv vs. the image on my plasma. The el cheapo tv is spot on, while the plasma is clearly delayed. Right now, I've just got a optical video cable running from my Denon 1600 to the Pio 503CMX. I also have a video and audio cables running to the vcr which in turn feeds an el cheapo tv. I use the tv as my audio right now. So I suppose the delay could be from the vcr or the DVD player. I haven't tried to run the DVD player through my front projector surround sound system yet. I suppose that's going to the be the next test.


jflegert, thanks for the tip on the Pure Cinema mode. I will toggle it off and see if there is a difference.


oferlaor, I do know that the KD card is a scaler and dvi hdcp input device. I was just hoping to kill two birds with one stone. I'm going to isolate the devices in my chain to see what is the culprit, as well as toggling off the Pure Cinema Mode.


Thanks everyone! I will report back after my experimentation!
 

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video1,


I have a tough time figuring out what you have hooked up, as many of the terms you are using are incorrect (e.g., there's no such thing as an "optical video cable"), you refer to your speaker as "front projector speakers" (a front projector is a projector that projects light onto a screen). You should be more careful with your terminology.


The way it's supposed to work is this:

1. Video should go directly from your DVD to your display through a 3x BNC or RCA component cable.


2. Audio should be going (digitally either by coax or optical cable) to the A/V receiver.


3. The A/V receiver should be hooked up to your speakers.


4. The A/V receiver should be set up properly (size of speakers and distance from them to the listener).


NOW, once you have this hooked up, write us back and report if there is still a lipsync error.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
oferlaor, I'm sorry for any confusion.


Let me try again to describe my setup.


I have a front projection system with processor and amps and speakers. Right now, my plasma is NOT hooked up to that system.


I have a DVD player and VCR that run to an el cheapo televison. TheDVD rca outs run to the vcr inputs. The VCR output to the el cheapo televison is coax, since the tv does not have seperate inputs.


The plasma receives a video signal directly from the DVD player via a digital optical cable. That's it. Nothing else runs from the DVD player to the plasma.


So no, I don't run component cables because it was simpler to run the digital optical cable. Do you think that's the cause of the delay? I'll have to break out some rca cables and try that instead and see if it makes a diff.


So you can see then, when I play a dvd, both my el cheapo tv and the plasma receive signals. The tv has audio speakers obviously so that's where I'm getting the audio from. The image on the plasma does not match the sound coming from the speakers.


I have also tried to run the audio out from the dvd player to the input of the processor, and played through my surround sound audio system, the lip synch is also off.
 

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video1,


Closer, but still no cigar.


There is no *optical* cable I'm aware of that supports VIDEO... Anyway, the best way to hook it up is through component.


What connection does it hook up to on the DVD (what does it say on the DVD player's connector )?


What does it say on the plasma's video input connector?


In any way, using the el-cheapo TV for audio is a completely wierd way to work, it can definitely cause lipsync issues.


You need to make sure everything's hooked up properly.
 

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MAB: I'm not sure it's a glitch. I bet with all the changes to the HD Leeza they had to delay the beta of the Pioneer card. It probably won't start it's final beta/gamma cycle until after the big box ships. Then it will have to go to manufacture.


I bet it's more a snowballing delay effect rather than anything worse.


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
oferlaor, of course your right! I don't know what I was thinking. I must have plasma on the brain. I've got so many components right now and so many wires that I'm getting thoroughly confused as to what is going where!!!


One more try at describing my set up.


DVD player sound output is connected to surround sound processor via digital optical cable. DVD component output is running to the plasma.


VCR video rca out is running to input 2 of the Pio 503. VCR coax video out is running to el cheapo tv.


When I watch a tv program using the VCR as a tuner, I have both the el cheapo tv and the plasma on. There is a lip synch delay that is noticeable from what I see and hear on the el cheapo tv vs. what I see on the plasma.


When I watch a DVD, there is a smaller but still noticeable lip synch delay on the plasma.


There, does that make more sense? Thanks for being patient!
 

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video1,


MUCH MUCH better.


IMO, it's your TV that has the delay on the audio.


The smaller lipsync delay between plasma and receiver can be explained either by the fact that the receiver is not set up properly (distance from each speaker to the listener) or if the Plasma is set up in some way (as explained above) for enhanced video processing.


I would turn off such features on the plasma, and also investigate the delay setup on the A/V receiver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
oferlaor, yes I have thought of that. But while there is no lip synch delay with the el cheapo tv, there is significant lip synch delay with the plasma. I know the delay on the processor is set up properly because when I use it with my front projector, there is no lip synch issue. I'm going to play with some of the settings as suggested above, and report back later today or tomorrow. Thanks again!
 

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Over the mothers day weekend, I have helped my father in law setup a new HT system with a Pio 503CMX. In his setup, we have a component cable going from the receiver to the display and we use the component switching features of the receiver to switch between a DVD player and a Comcast HD cable tuner. For video, both the DVD player and the cable tuner are connected to the receiver by component cables. The DVD player audio is connected to the receiver via a COAX digital connection. The cable box audio is connected via a optical digital connection. The audio from the DVD player is spot on. No delays what so ever. However, there is a noticable lip sync problem with the audio problem on the cable box (which was just installed today).


So, the common factor in our problems is the optical cable. I will investigate this further, but I just put it out here as an FYI.


Regards,

Hal
 
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