[djm3801]

Got a 50G15 plasma in October 2009. September build. Got Panasonic (as opposed to Samsung) for the quality and standing behind what they sell, as well as price point. My set still looks great.


I got excited to hear they were putting Netfilx on Vieracast. I have a Roku and a PS3 in the rec room and I can get Netflix anyway, but in the Living room , it would be nice to get it via my BD60. So then then announce there is a "hardware" issue preventing Netflix on 2009 tv models. No clue about Blu ray but I would expect the same.


Then this black level thing. I do not know that it is widespread, but a lot of folks here seem to be experiencing it. Panasonic says it is not broke and they will not fix it. Some respected folks here seem to feel, if it is a programmed thing to adjust levels with age, it is not working right. Of course, we are seeing some reports of this with Samsung as well now. Is it catching?


All that said, spent a lot of time in this section of the forum doing research before I got my 50g15, and my kid was here yesterday remarking on my awesome picture. He used to work in Audio Video sales and has a sharp eye. I figured I'd buy him one and came back here to do catch up research and saw all this black level / Netflix stuff. How does Panasonic expect to retain brand loyalty with their approach to th embedded base? Do I want to buy a 50G10 like I planned (the G15 is discontinued)? Do I want to buy a Panasonic / Plasma at all of just go with a Samsung LCD? Love my set, but all this stuff is unsettling.

 

[TopShelf17]

You sound like a type that enjoys worrying Dan.


Why not just enjoy your recent purchase? I have seen the G15 and it's a great set.


Listen to your son and not to picky people here with agendas. The set is made to be enjoyed........ so do it!!!

 

[bkun]



Quote:
Originally Posted by TopShelf17 /forum/post/18172642


You sound like a type that enjoys worrying Dan.


Why not just enjoy your recent purchase? I have seen the G15 and it's a great set.


Listen to your son and not to picky people here with agendas. The set is made to be enjoyed........ so do it!!!

Unless you are a videophile who is obsessed with minute details, then you don't have anything to worry.

 

[adone36]

Hmmm, how do they expect to maintain brand loyalty ......


Maybe by

1) offering tvs with the among the lowest problem incidents of all mfg.

2) offering tvs that are rated by a majority of reviews out there as the best image among ALL HDTVs for 30 or more percent less than other tvs.

 

[hhaller]

The G10's will remain on the market for a little while longer, and the prices may continue to drop if you hold off.


Maybe Panasonic will come to their senses and actually try to fix this black level issue instead of just flipping the middle finger to the consumer.

 

[ClarkeBar]

What is with all this knee-jerk defense from Panny fanboys?


If your Black levels have not risen, then good for you. Enjoy.


If your THX mode color is not screwed then again, enjoy.


If your Black levels have risen and you either don't want to know/admit it or you as yet haven't measured your screens, then why reflexively post the way you do? Whistling past the graveyard?


Look at the photos provided by folks with the problem. That is a defect visible onscreen. Very easy to see. Picky people with agendas? Nice unbiased descriptive.

Panny may have previously had the best reputation for defects but does that include the issues now current, from THX to rising MLL? Perhaps we are now seeing just how Panny maintains that standing ... by refusing to acknowledge it. Gee, there's a plan! How many owners out there are staring at green/yellow tinting in THX and are unaware that it stems from incorrect color values?


It is the 'anal' guys and gals here on this board and others that find this crap in the first place. Joe six usually could care less. But that doesn't equate to no problem. It just equates to whatever you can get away with. If Panny doesn't step up to the plate and change it's ways then Pioneer technology will simply be mishandled by an undeserving company.

 

[TopShelf17]

Clarke you admit to owning in your profile a Zenith Z42 ED Plasma. For god sakes, haven't you embarrassed yourself enough!!!!!

 

[adone36]

We don't get excited perhaps because there's nothing to get excited about. Hard to get excited when a forum cowboy gets hysterical about "what are they going to do about the huge problem" and 99% of the people go "what problem?".


Simply put, every tv ever made or will be made has "issues" to one nut or another. Panasonic has ALWAYS been at the bottom of the problem list, so hysterics, PLEASE buy something else and scream bloody murder about when all of the "huge problems" with your purchase will be fixed.

 

[ClarkeBar]



Quote:
Originally Posted by TopShelf17 /forum/post/18174171


Clarke you admit to owning in your profile a Zenith Z42 ED Plasma. For god sakes, haven't you embarrassed yourself enough!!!!!

Nice reply. And so on point.

And it's even worse. You don't have to check the profile when the Sig link reveals even more ... and directly. Nothing like going the looooong way around.


So is your Panny a Pioneer? I didn't think so. Gee, this gets easier every second.

 

[TopShelf17]

Clarke the more you type the more you validate the saying at the bottom of your posts.


Your selection of plasma says alot about your credibility in this forum.


Best move on before you embarrass yourself even more.

 

[ClarkeBar]

No, my friend, Unfortunately it is your posts which reveal all that is needed to know about you. Also unfortunately, I fear you are oblivious to this fact. If I were to read only the posts you have made here in this thread, it would suffice.


FYI, my choice in plasma was 5 years ago. My reasons for that specific purchase were many and varied and I have been very happy and also waiting for the right time to upgrade. Panny has simply made that decision more difficult of late.


Have a nice one.

 

[geister]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar /forum/post/18173961


What is with all this knee-jerk defense from Panny fanboys?


If your Black levels have not risen, then good for you. Enjoy.


If your THX mode color is not screwed then again, enjoy.


If your Black levels have risen and you either don't want to know/admit it or you as yet haven't measured your screens, then why reflexively post the way you do? Whistling past the graveyard?


Look at the photos provided by folks with the problem. That is a defect visible onscreen. Very easy to see. Picky people with agendas? Nice unbiased descriptive.

...

Automatic denial and censorship on the part of people who favor one brand or technology is an emotional reaction, not a logical one. If you want quality products, then speak up and hold manufacturers accountable.


Also, since Panasonic seems to have admitted that the sets are intentionally designed in such a way that black levels will change, are we to assume that some sets are magically immune to this change?

 

[ClarkeBar]

And that is the problem. We go from folks who swear nothing has changed to Panny telling us that changes are intended. I have no real issue with Panny's decision to affect the phophors for the good of the overall life of the panels. In fact I am still cautiously awaiting the 54V25 debut. The problem clearly shows in the end results when things go wrong, for whatever reason. Which is why I can wait until the 2010 panels have been shown to not drastically change in black level.

 

[jackal2001]

Just a question regarding your comment in bold. So you are OK with the black levels rising to the same level over a longer period of time instead of all at once???

They didn't state when it would happen. So at 500hrs it might be 1/2 and at 1000hrs it might be the other 1/2.


IMHO it shouldn't happen at all.

 

[ClarkeBar]

No, I mean the slight level changes they must have intended to achieve with this. Obviously I am giving them the benefit of the doubt here based simply on the theory that a successful company has relatively few insane employees in critical decision making positions.

The notion that a drastic (I consider doubling to be drastic - but some have exceeded even this) rise in black level can be tolerated, even if over a 4-5 year period, is pure BS if that is what Panny intends. Which is why I am cautious because as of yet we have received nothing but PR BS, understandably. A huge recall is the last thing any manufacturer wants to engage in and usually only after government pressure or actual fiat to do so through regulatory agencies. Absent this, Panny can therefore spin what is happening until the cows come home. But the final arbiter in all of this will be sales and subsequent returns and their accumulated affect on the bottom line.


I am kinda worried about the Pio tech and what will be eventually implemented by Panny. Seems they are going in the wrong direction. Let's hope the 2010s will be better and the 2011s as consistently black as can be.


How is your 50V10 doing by the way? Wanted the 54V10 so badly but passed when the hullabaloo started up. And thanks for posting your factory SM values. As someone who calibrates, it is nice to see such thoughtfulness on the boards.

 

[RichB]

What I find really strange about the argument that so few even care there is no need to fix it.


Actually, that argues that they should fix it since very few will ask for the fix (i.e. not expensive) and it would restore their reputation.


Right now, they are probably busy working on the 2010 models to eliminate or push the problem out past the "long term" testing the CNET and other reviewers have promised.


The professional reviewers are worried about their integrity. Go figure.


- Rich

 

[Panaman88]

If I had the problem, I would be on the phone with Panasonic FIRMLY demanding a fix, new set, refund, etc.

 

[djm3801]

I am taking it that the problem is not wide spread - GOOD!! BUT if it does occur, and it annoys folk who are typical viewers and not just the OCD folks who measure their black levels with a meter every day, and Panasonic says it is normal to have a washed out picture after a little while, that is bad. If that happened to my pride and joy 50G15, and the manufacturer told me it was not broke, I would find the closest rep and stick it... Never mind.

 

[tc-p58s1]

Clarke,


What about you do not own a Panasonic, therefore your black levels have not risen, and you "knee jerk" contribute to Panasonic black level threads?


Cheers,


TC-P58S1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar /forum/post/18173961


What is with all this knee-jerk defense from Panny fanboys?


If your Black levels have not risen, then good for you. Enjoy.


If your THX mode color is not screwed then again, enjoy.


If your Black levels have risen and you either don't want to know/admit it or you as yet haven't measured your screens, then why reflexively post the way you do? Whistling past the graveyard?


Look at the photos provided by folks with the problem. That is a defect visible onscreen. Very easy to see. Picky people with agendas? Nice unbiased descriptive.

Panny may have previously had the best reputation for defects but does that include the issues now current, from THX to rising MLL? Perhaps we are now seeing just how Panny maintains that standing ... by refusing to acknowledge it. Gee, there's a plan! How many owners out there are staring at green/yellow tinting in THX and are unaware that it stems from incorrect color values?


It is the 'anal' guys and gals here on this board and others that find this crap in the first place. Joe six usually could care less. But that doesn't equate to no problem. It just equates to whatever you can get away with. If Panny doesn't step up to the plate and change it's ways then Pioneer technology will simply be mishandled by an undeserving company.

 

[tc-p58s1]

It wuld be sweet to have Netflix, however since it was not a feature when I purchased the set I do not hold that against Panasonic anymore then I hold it against Hanns-G who made my 32" LCD coputer monitor.


As far as the black level, well that's a dead horse and frankly any discussion is like pissing in the wind.


You have a great television with what you quote as an "awesome" picture. Why are you upset? Like the other poster stated: Enjoy it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by djm3801 /forum/post/18172363


Got a 50G15 plasma in October 2009. September build. Got Panasonic (as opposed to Samsung) for the quality and standing behind what they sell, as well as price point. My set still looks great.


I got excited to hear they were putting Netfilx on Vieracast. I have a Roku and a PS3 in the rec room and I can get Netflix anyway, but in the Living room , it would be nice to get it via my BD60. So then then announce there is a "hardware" issue preventing Netflix on 2009 tv models. No clue about Blu ray but I would expect the same.


Then this black level thing. I do not know that it is widespread, but a lot of folks here seem to be experiencing it. Panasonic says it is not broke and they will not fix it. Some respected folks here seem to feel, if it is a programmed thing to adjust levels with age, it is not working right. Of course, we are seeing some reports of this with Samsung as well now. Is it catching?


All that said, spent a lot of time in this section of the forum doing research before I got my 50g15, and my kid was here yesterday remarking on my awesome picture. He used to work in Audio Video sales and has a sharp eye. I figured I'd buy him one and came back here to do catch up research and saw all this black level / Netflix stuff. How does Panasonic expect to retain brand loyalty with their approach to th embedded base? Do I want to buy a 50G10 like I planned (the G15 is discontinued)? Do I want to buy a Panasonic / Plasma at all of just go with a Samsung LCD? Love my set, but all this stuff is unsettling.