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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I was demoing a CS-1 a few days ago on a HDTV with a 33.75kHz sweet spot, the TV was a Sony KV-36XBR400, I could get the 1080i resolution to work but not the 960x540p resolution?



I think it may be because the vertical refresh is 50Hz with 540p and 60Hz with 1080i. I could wrong about that but that seemed to be the problem. I am looking into buying a CS-1, and I must say that the 1080i scaling looked very nice but, I was thinking maybe 540p would even look better, but I never got to see that resolution.



Anyone have any idea's as to why that happened? Focus may need to upload a 960x540p 60Hz resolution. Or maybe I was doing something wrong?




thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Shaun,



I know you have been on the site today, do you have any idea's about this?




Thanks
 

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thats a pal resolution have you tried 720p
 

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My only thought is that not all TV's support 540p. You could try creating a custom 540p resolution but you would need a little help from Sony in order to get the timing specs.
 

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It could also be related to sync. What does the Sony require for sync in order to display 540p?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi FE,



I had a CI 4.0 scaler that outputted 960x540p and the 540p resolution worked fine. But, after seeing 1080i with the CS-1 it is night and day how much better the CS-1 does displaying it's output resolutions.




I am pretty sure the CI 4.0 had a vertical refresh at 60Hz.
 

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1. Scan rate and sync. Regarding component video (which is analog), for all intents and purposes, 540p and 1080i scan rates are the same thing (assuming 60 Hz refresh rate). The true refresh rate (if based on NTSC) is 59.94 540 active line fields or frames per second. Of the extremely minute number of incompatibilities, there are more of them related to putting 59.94 540 active line fields/frames into a TV that expects 60 fields/frames per second (or vice versa) compared with putting 540p into a TV that expected 1080i or vice versa. 1080i has 1125 total scan lines per approx. 1/30'th of a second (29.97 full frames per second), I think 540p has 1124 or 1126 total scan lines per approx. 1/30'th of a second and hardly any TV will stumble on that difference. The "x960" of 540x960 won't give as sharp a picture as the "x1920" of 1080i but for component video input, the TV electronics won't sense any difference.


(The above does not apply to digital video such as DVI or Firewire; for this 1080i and 540x960 are profoundly different.)


2. Program content. 540p program content has each "pair of odd and even 540 line fields" the same while even and odd fields of 1080i are not necessarily the same. The vertical resolution is therefore half of 1080i in the best of circumstances.


3. Display. 540p or 1080i displayed on the picture tube as 540p has "odd" and "even" 540 line fields on top of each other, and gaps between scan lines will be more noticeable if the electron beam is not fat enough. 540p or 1080i displayed as 1080i has alternating 540 line fields staggered, and you might notice a bit more flicker if the electron beams are especially thin.


LCD, DLP, etc TV sets with 540 rows of pixels can of course display 1080i only as 540p.


Generally for SDTV (480i and 480p NTSC and 576i and 576p PAL) if upconverted to 1080i you are really getting 540p in terms of content.


Video hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi Allan,




Yes, I know both 1080i and 540p are the same thing non native as long as you have the 60Hz refresh rate. But, from all I could see with the CS-1, only it's 1080i resolution has the 60Hz refresh rate. It has been a few days now after the demo, I am trying to remember but, I am pretty sure the 540p resolution on the CS-1 has a 50Hz refresh rate.




I think that's the problem with this Sony HDTV. FE, could you check this out for me, It would be great if you could. Also, would there be any way you could have your team there as Focus upload 540p at 60Hz?




thanks
 

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Sure send me your TV and I will take care of it. I'll get it back to you sometime next year after I have enjoyed it for a while. :) I really think that you should use 1080i, or just create a 540p custom resolution just edit the PAL version to 60hz see what happens. That's all I would do, would you like me to do this and send it to you? I don't have a RPTV to test, all I have is a G20 DILA and an LCD xga projector.
 

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The main difference between 540p and 1080i is that 1080i is tri level sync Y PbPr unless it is DVI. 540p could be RGB or Y PbPr. That is why I asked the Sync question, plus with Sony projectors you have to Sync on Green with RGB in order to see the full panel. I thought that maybe Sony did something similar with this TV since it does support XGA. I am not as familiar with RPTV's as I am projectors so this is just an educated hunch. I bet some info may be in the Sny manual.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi Shaun,



I am going to buy a CS-1, I really enjoyed the PQ at 1080i. Also, I did try 1024x768p on green and the Sony projector showed three images acrossed the screen, any idea's there? When I buy the unit, I will try and edit the 540p resolution.
 

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FE: I too am having problems with the CS-1 and 540p. I have a Mits 65908 and it should be able to work with 540p. The problem I have is that at 540px960 (stock res) the picture is shifted too far left and it seems to loose sync. I tried to shift the picture right but it will not go far enough. Any way that you could "tap" into resources at Mitsubishi for some assistance? I tried but no way to get to a high level tech who understands what the heck I am asking for !! Any thoughts??
 

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I think you have to force sync on green at start up with the CS-1 since the default is usually H V. This should be in the manual. I don't have time to look it up right now. We have a big sales meeting at corporate next week that I have to prepare for. So I will be unavailable for a while.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by morgt0
FE: I too am having problems with the CS-1 and 540p. I have a Mits 65908 and it should be able to work with 540p. The problem I have is that at 540px960 (stock res) the picture is shifted too far left and it seems to loose sync. I tried to shift the picture right but it will not go far enough. Any way that you could "tap" into resources at Mitsubishi for some assistance? I tried but no way to get to a high level tech who understands what the heck I am asking for !! Any thoughts??
You need to adjust the back porch settings. This TV will not work with our default 540p res, but you can create one that will work. Others have already done it so I am sure that you will be able to get the custom res. If you do get it and it works email it to me and I will post it on our website for others to download.
 

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Shaun,


Here is the custom resolution that I found from other members that works very well on my 65" Mits.


480p = 1100, 960, 32, 20, 525, 480, 10, 10, 600, YPrPB, +/+

540p = 1100, 960, 32, 20, 563, 540, 10, 10, 600, YPrPb, +/+


The resolutions are created by starting with PIMA_1080. PIMA_1080 can be used by editing 1080p stock and substituting the 480p/540p values for the 1080p ones. Editing other resolutions only gives you RGB/YPrPb choices.


Bjake


PS. - Thanks to Socio and WT-46809 for doing the "tweaking" and coming up with this great resolution.
 

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I tried Bjake's recomendation but Is till can't get a stabile picture. I did for a minute, then I switched to the VGA passthru for my HDTV recv. When I switched back to the output on the CS-1 the picture went green and unstabile again. It seems that the Mits is confused when it switches back and forth from the HDTV recv. that is outputting RGB to the CS-1 output.


Bjake: you mentioned that you are not connecting the H+V cables to the Mits on your breakout cable. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. The problem with that for my setup is that I want to use the VGA passthru for the HDTV recv.
 

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Your default color space is Y PB Pr what is your VGA passthrough color space? RGB? This is an obvious case of the colorspace being different with each source and you are confusing the TV. You should create a new custom res, not by editing the Pima 1080 but be creating one from scratch and match the color space to be the same as the source on your vga pass through input.
 

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I just went through BJakes numbers with an engineer. We are surprised that this even works at all. These specs indicate that you should be missing 20 lines. We will try to create some 540p resolutions to test. We will need your help since we do not have a display that supports 540p.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I went back to the store I demoed at and asked the sales person to let me see if I could get the 960x540p resolution to work using a VGA to Y Pb Pr transcoder.



I connected a RP-82 DVD player to the progressive input on the CS-1 Y Pb Pr then used a Male to Male VGA cable to connect from the CS-1's VGA output to the VGA input on the transcoder then connected a Y Pb Pr cable from the Y Pb Pr output on the transcoder to the Y Pb Pr input on the TV and and made sure to output RGB from the CS-1 to the transcoder, it worked fine.



I could have used a VGA to BNC breakout cable as well but they did not have one.
 

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FE: I would be more than happy to be a beta tester for a new resolution. I tried contracting MITS figuring that they must be able to tell me exactly what the input specs should be for THERE tv but of course they were no help. Does anyone have access to a service manual? Maybe that would have the Spec needed for a 540P input??
 
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