[naimbeg]

I am so tempted to get the KDF-60XS950 TV (I can get it at BB with the extened 4 year warranty for under $4000...

But I know that 1080P TV's are just starting to hit the market (Sharps 45 inch LC-45G1U)... How long do you think it will be until a 55 inch 1080P TV (from any manufacturer) will start to hit the market at ~$4000 price range???

A year, 2 years or more???

I've waited so long, I'd hit to get a 720P when the 1080P's were only a year away.


What to do???

 

[Auditor55]

I would say around 2015 A.D.

 

[bigjohns1997SS]

about the time fiber optics is as mainstream as copper cable ...

 

[naimbeg]

You mocking me????

I am just wondering if I should wait another year for 1080P sets (if they are going to drop in cost to what current DLP sets are running now)...


Or are you saying that 1080P most likely won't catch on (the fiber optics remark)...


Come on guys, be nice now.

 

[jeffloby]

In my opinion, the 1080p sets are what will allow manufacturers to be able to get the big price for HDTVs. You can buy a DLP HDTV now for 2,500.00 to 4,000.00. The 1080p HDTV will be at least double those prices. I would say 7,000.00 for 40 in. model. Just my opinion. Don't blast me.

 

[paulbf1]

The 70" Sony Qualia RPTV to be released next year is 1080P IIRC. List price

 

[AcuraCL]

Um. 720p and 1080i are still niche products. What, like a few million households have them ....

 

[CHDinCT]

Even if 1080p sets were on the shelf now are your local electronics store, I doubt there'd be much if any programming available until 2015. Most networks and cable channels are just now investing or invested in 1080i or 720p prodcution equipment. I don't see them rushing out to replace their equipment with 1080p equipment any time soon. So, ask yourself, even if you waited for a 1080p set, what are you gonna do with it?

 

[gammadude]

These sets will have the ability to convert a 1080i signal to 1080p. This is similar in concept to progressive scan DVD (480i to 480p). You will be able to view the full resolution of 1080i, 1920x1080 pixels, without scaling down to 720p, 1280x720 pixels.

 

[Jordan420]

Quote:

Originally posted by CHDinCT if you waited for a 1080p set, what are you gonna do with it?

HD-DVD

 

[CHDinCT]

Quote:

Originally posted by gammadude These sets will have the ability to convert a 1080i signal to 1080p. This is similar in concept to progressive scan DVD (480i to 480p). You will be able to view the full resolution of 1080i, 1920x1080 pixels, without scaling down to 720p, 1280x720 pixels.

I agree, but does that really buy you anything (worth the extra cost)? Watching 408i or 480p upscaled to my DLPs native 720p never looks as good as watching something broadcast in 720p. Nobody buys an HDTV set just to upscale lower resolution signals; they buy them to watch HD at 720p or 1080i (which is increasingly available), and live with upscaled signals when they can't get HD.


I'm just saying that it would be a lot of extra dollars and you won't get any programming in 1080p for who knows how long.

 

[Steve_in_L.A.]

Quote:

I agree, but does that really buy you anything (worth the extra cost)? Watching 408i or 480p upscaled to my DLPs native 720p never looks as good as watching something broadcast in 720p.

I'm working on getting my head around the engineering of this, but Chris it seems like you missed the point. Your statement is not equivalent to what was said. Changing 480i to 480p is no upscaling as far as I can tell, right?


Instead, it's taking a source designed to be shown as interlaced fields, with all the bad motion artifacts that entails, and de-interlacing to show progressive frames. It seems to work great going from 480i to 480p (same resolution), why would it NOT work for de-interlacing a 1080i source to produce a spectacular 1080p source without interlace motion artifacts?? Am I missing something?

 

[padlock]

But for all film sourced material (which includes movies and most tv dramas) , being able to de-interlace a 1080i signal is exactly the same as if the material was brodcast at 1080p (as long as the tv has 3:2 pulldown detection).


In other words, there is already a ton of 1080p24 material being broadcast, it's simply transmitted at 1080i60.

 

[PaulGo]

Broadcasters are investing a lot of money in 720p and 1080i equipment. I do not see them converting to 1080p @ 30fps anytime soon. I think Auditor55 is optimistic my best guess is 2020. I think 1080p capability in some sets will arrive very soon but I don't think it will become mainstream for many years. The only thing that could change my assessment is the new HD DVD players, if the disks support 1080p (not upconverted to 1080p) and it really catches on then I'll go with 2015. You need to remember the AVS forum does not resemble the general population. Most people do not have HDTV. It appears over the air digital TV will be delayed till at least 2009 because most people have not switched. Most of the general public does not care about this issue, and on screens below 60" I doubt the difference in picture quality be be enough to sway many people. The only group of people that could really use 1080p is front projection.

 

[bfdtv]

Several months ago, Samsung announced their 61" 1080p DLP (HL-P6197W). It has a MSRP of $6499 with an ETA of December/January.


Other Samsung 1080p models (97W series) are expected to be unveiled at CES in January. Expect 1080p models to command a $800-$1200 premium over HD2+ 720p models. Within 18 months, expect 1080p DLP pricing to be where 720p pricing is now.


Samsung is known for their premium pricing, so expect lower priced 1080p DLPs from the likes of Toshiba.

 

[kyungkim]

Quote:

Samsung is known for their premium pricing, so expect lower priced 1080p DLPs from the likes of Toshiba.

Samsung premium pricing?


When the hlm507 first hit in 2001 or 2002, panasonic and mitsibishis dlps based on the hd1 chip were priced at over 8 grand!

When I saw the hlm at the he expo, with the hd2 chip with a retail of less than half of what the other guys sold it for, i was astounded.


I mean do you see any other mfg on the radar with a 1080p set for less than 8k?


Yes samsung screwed up their hd2+ chip this yr buy pricing it out of the market, and i think their hd3 sets blow, but they are by no means premium pricers.

Take it from another cheap ass korean, samsung = value.. except in this yrs line.


I was gonna stay out of this 1080p thread, since it has generated into 1080>720 so it must be better yadda yadda....


But i will say it again.

I doubt if we get more than 800-900 lines of discernable info in the 1080i signal being passed to us by broadcasters and distributors. Given that, i think the current 720p and 788p sets do a fine job of cross converting this interlaced sig.


I have seen true 1080p, a re rendered sequence from the disney animation dinosaur, it was astounding. Shown on a sony g90 projector that is more than capable of showing this off. In the same display i saw uponverted 1080i hidef. Not so earth shattering.


Until native software is available, i think 1080p is nice, but not necessary for a great pic.

Esp in the 42-60in sizes most of us have room for, i think 1080p is for the most part not even relevant. There are other issues such as contrast, scaling artifacts, dithering, rainbows etc.. that warrant being fixed before resolution.


K

 

[jvrobert]

On the 1080 vs 720 front, I don't think there's any point in arguing. You'd be silly not to take a 1080p TV over a 720p. What price premium it's worth is another matter. I'd pay a few thousand more just to have a perfect HTPC display and for unscaled 1080p display of 1080i material. Also, it should be easier to scale a standard DVDs resolution to 1080 than to 720.


As for 800-900 lines - I'm not sure I understand. I always thought 1080i was 1080i - it has 1080 lines display as interlaced fields. I don't understand how there could be 800-900 lines of discernible content unless there are black bars. Doesn't make sense to me.


My guess for 1080p TV's being "mainstream" is probably 5-6 years. However, I think they'll be "enthusiast maintsream" sometime in early 2006 - meaning they'll be what they people who are currently buying high end DLP sets now will be buying then.

 

[bigjohns1997SS]

Quote:

Originally posted by naimbeg You mocking me???? I am just wondering if I should wait another year for 1080P sets (if they are going to drop in cost to what current DLP sets are running now)... Or are you saying that 1080P most likely won't catch on (the fiber optics remark)... Come on guys, be nice now.

I am not mocking you.. i am being serious. you 1080p mainstream, i would think the amount of bandwidth needed to host very many true 1080p channels will only be obtainable with fiber optics.

 

[Michael Mohrmann]

Quote:

Originally posted by jvrobert Also, it should be easier to scale a standard DVDs resolution to 1080 than to 720.

Can you explain why this is so, or maybe have a link that describes the upscaling that occurs with DVDs to 720/1080? I have heard some people state that on some TVs, upscaling DVDs and SD cable/sat to 1080i is slightly better than to 720p. I'll admit that I am new to this, so before my wife and I purchase our first HDTV, it would probably be good to understand upscaling in digital TVs (and standalone upscalers, for that matter).


Thanks,


Michael

 

[Michael Mohrmann]

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann Can you explain why this is so, or maybe have a link that describes the upscaling that occurs with DVDs to 720/1080?

I found some links on the HTPC forum on AVS, but now I am also reading about HTPCs. Oh joy, more money to spend!


Michael