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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HDCP in an article Joel Brinkley states that DVI with HDCP will be needed to watch certain HD broadcasts including those from DirectTV (Satellite)



What's going to happen, don't we as citizens of the USA have any say on the obviously 'bought' Congress, In My Opinion who some of you voted for, are in the pocket of the MPAA all it takes is money and greed to take away our constitutional rights.




Our right that was given to us in 1983 and then taken away in the Digital Mellenium copyright law passed by some in Congress. They need our vote to stay in office, maybe this time I'll vote for the first time in my life for a congressmen to end this MPAA domination of our rights!




Seriously what can we do to save *our* hobby, or to some like me a way of life?
 

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Um, you need to file comments with the FCC by Friday if you wish to be heard.
 

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I still find it amusing that people think that the content owners should not be able to do anything they want with their own property...


Do I want down-rezzing to happen? No, of course not. BUT IT IS NOT OUR PROPERTY -- THE CONTENT OWNERS CAN (AND SHOULD BE ABLE TO) DO ANYTHING THEY WANT WITH IT!


What is it that people don't understand about this?
 

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I have DVI on my tv display but I am not worrying one way or the other.

I watch HD over OTA and not worrying in the least about losing it. 5-10 years from now, there will be much HD all over the palce and you will be watching it..not to worry.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by RJKobbeman
I still find it amusing that people think that the content owners should not be able to do anything they want with their own property...


What is it that people don't understand about this?
I don't understand why new laws are/were (DMCA) needed when existing ones stated just that.


I don't understand why the government feels the need to mandate standards when market forces would do it instead.
 

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So kipp,


Are you saying that Congress should (or might) pass something that says down-rezzing cannot occur?


If this happens, you will see hollywood see no reason to deliver HD at all. If Hollywood cannot protect their HD feeds by down-rezzing unprotected outputs, you will simply see them deliver SD over all outputs.


Trying to legislate this is stupid. I don't see whey people think getting the government involved is going to fix things.
 

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Unless I'm mistaken current equipment will do nothing and will ignore the flag in the bitstream. Only new equipment will obey the flag. So if you already have a HDTV tuner I don't see what the concern is.


Stereodude
 

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Rob,

not at all. I do think the new Congress will make Hollywood meet us somewhere in the middle. There is no way the new Congress will not let us record HD. Even the outgoing committees were opposed to that.


Hollywood will deliver HD whether they like it or not. The marketplace will force it. If they did not, guys like Cuban will steam roll Hollywood all the way to the bank. Hollywood is playing this hand out to its fullest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I do a heck of a lot of surfing and every thing Hollywood is coming up with the world is taking it apart, and finding workarounds!




You Remember Princess Lea talking to Darth Vader, "the tighter you clench your fist, the more that will slip thru" I think that sums up what Hollywood is tying to do with their copy protection and the world will find ways to circumvent it.




The rules of this forum don't let me put on some of the sites I have linked to. Let me say this there are more DVD recorder disc to disc and companies that will let you add your own chapters(hollywood style) I have seen and read what they can do, it's the world pulling together; like we respect each others countries on the wide world web.:)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kippjones
Rob,

not at all. I do think the new Congress will make Hollywood meet us somewhere in the middle. There is no way the new Congress will not let us record HD. Even the outgoing committees were opposed to that.


Hollywood will deliver HD whether they like it or not. The marketplace will force it. If they did not, guys like Cuban will steam roll Hollywood all the way to the bank. Hollywood is playing this hand out to its fullest.
I agree that the market will force Hollywood to deliver HD. And I think that is the ONLY thing that SHOULD force Hollywood to do something. This notion of wanting our government to force Hollywood to do something is asenine. To me, the whole fair-use thing does not apply here. HDCP will not prevent someone from timeshifting their shows... it just wont be in HD (if the speculation of down-rezzing is true). If the goverment says Hollywood cannot downrez, Hollywood COULD just say "fine, EVERYONE gets 480i."


What I find really, really, REALLY amusing are the folks that are in denial about DVI/HDCP. They say it "wont ever happen"... yada, yada, yada... Then they go out and buy a set without DVI... then jump on the "lets sue Hollywood" bandwagon because they MIGHT get a down-rezzed signal in the future.


I know I'm sort of getting on a tangent here.... but I think anyone who buys a new HDTV/Display TODAY without DVI/HDCP is crazy. Yeah, HDCP may never happen, but I dought it. Just look at where it is going. All new DirecTV HD receivers have it -- and do not have Firewire (which I think sucks)... and look at where DVI/HDCP is going with the new HDTVs. Anyone who thinks this is some fad that will go away is nuts.


Now, I wish manufacturers would start putting DVI and Firewire in their sets. I know Hitachi's XWX does... but I have some issues with them. It appears there implementation is not as good as everyone wanted... and I just do not like the 480 => 540 conversion.


I think Mitsubishi's implementation of Firewire ROCKS -- especially with HAVI, but no DVI. Man, does Mitsubishi realize the sales they are losing by not offering DVI. Their stance is commendable, but I think they are also in denial. I wont even get into their "promise" crap. What a bunch of BS.
 

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I don't see why there can't be some sort of copy protection flag detectable by analog signal, i.e. component output, only visible perhaps at the extreme corner of an overscan. Nowadays, detectable flags don't even need to be visible.


Then just program the circuitry of any component-in device not to record protected content at full HD, just to satisfy the powers that be.


Its moot right now because there is no consumer product (besides a $5k old model dvhs I think) that takes HD component in to record anyway.


dvi, just like vga, is merely an interface. hdcp or any comparable end-result can be achieved over any cable interface, including component in.


PS - since all of the interface panels on the back of TV sets seem to accomodate internal card asssemblies, i see no reason why manufacturers couldn't sell DVI upgrade kits to televisions that don't already have it built in.
 

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I think the issue here is some people do not want Hollywood to be able to prevent copying at all....


Anyway, your example about using a "no-copy" flag on the components is very doable. The problem is, if the HDCP get hacked, which it will, people will be able to record via component (when equipment is made available). However, if the HD stream stays within the DVI realm, copying will be virtually impossible / cost prohibitive when HDCP is hacked because the shear amount of uncompressed data.


Now, to pose another question. What would it take to convert DVI to Component? Seems to me a popular "black market" device would be a box that accepts DVI-in and outputs Component...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by RJKobbeman
I think the issue here is some people do not want Hollywood to be able to prevent copying at all....
This true, but it's not an unreasonable stance, since very few people actually want to copy things...they merely want to record them for later (timeshifting), but "Hollywood" considers this sort of thing to be "copying" and violating their rights.


Basically, I have no problem with copy-protection on HDTV if there was some sort of law/rule/whatever that said broadcasters could never set a "no record" flag on anything that is otherwise freely available (like OTA), and the most that could ever be set is a "copy once" or other flag that allows a timeshifing-style recording.
 

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Maybe I'm not understanding this all, but basically Hollywood wants to prevent us form recording HD signal at the "best" resolution, is this correct?


If this is the case, outside of HD can't we already record freely form the television using a VCR/DVD-recorder?


Also, if this is the case, then didn't our congress already stand up once to say that we deserve to use our VCR's as we see fit? Even if as I understand it we have recently had that right revoked, won't it eventually be repealed once a number of politicians want to record the West Wing in HD...okay that may be a bit of overthinking on my part but isn't this the basic idea?


The only thing I understand (although dislike) is the commercial skip, I mean that is where most OTA stations make their money so if we are not watching comercials, outside of this I don't see how anything else applies.


Thanks for the enlightenmen.


P.S. What's so special about HD OTA programs that causes this big fit, or is Hollywood just trying to do some more preventative action like they did originally with the VCR?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by threeclaws
Maybe I'm not understanding this all, but basically Hollywood wants to prevent us form recording HD signal at the "best" resolution, is this correct?


If this is the case, outside of HD can't we already record freely form the television using a VCR/DVD-recorder?
Today, yes.


But, if all this copy protection stuff goes into place now with the idea that we can record in NTSC, what happens when NTSC no longer exists for OTA?


Quote:
P.S. What's so special about HD OTA programs that causes this big fit, or is Hollywood just trying to do some more preventative action like they did originally with the VCR?
A little of the latter, of course, but let's take the recent ABC broadcast of Beauty and the Beast as an example. There were no edits for content in that movie for broadcast...only commercial insertions. ABC broadcast the movie in 720p (that's 1280x720) and Dolby Digital 5.1. I didn't record it with my HTPC, but others did, and you can easily edit out commercials from that recording.


Those people now have the same content that you can buy on the current DVD, but at much higher resolution (DVDs are 720x480). You can easily make copies of the recording (although sending over the Internet isn't practical), so why buy the DVD, other than the extras?
 

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OK that's understandable about the possible dvd replacement, but just like vcr's...hollywood still sells tons of vhs (or at least did before dvd) even though we could easily tape movies and ffwd through the commercials, I don't think there are all that many people that wait the 5 years it takes for a movie to go from theatre's to OTA stations.


Obviously I'm sure the arguments have been made already, I was just trying to clarify exactly what's currently going on. I don't have the equipment right now to be all that interested (I know I should be), but I was going to start getting into it in about 6months when I graduate and get a good job.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by threeclaws
I don't think there are all that many people that wait the 5 years it takes for a movie to go from theatre's to OTA stations.
I agree with you on this, but I think the view from the studios is that if they allow recording at all, it will also become available for things like HBO-HD, where you don't have to wait 5 years.
 

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I understand your points, like I said I'm sure I'm just repeating what's already been said. I have a feeling this will eventually be overturned though, because even though people could start recording stuff left and right, they won't. Just like with the VCR everybody didn't start recording movies off HBO and then keeping them for years, if they really enjoyed a movie or if they wanted to see it once rental/purchase was/is the way to go. I mean I can d/l dvd quality movies off the net right now and burn them to a dvd but I don't like many others don't.


I just don't think that Hollywood has as much to worry about as they think they do, I'll just wait and see what happens like everyone else (I did go to the FCC page and put my vote it though.) Thanks for your time everybody I'm glad I now have some idea of what's going on.
 
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