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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is both a DVD and HD topic.


I set my DVR to record CHICAGO on Starz HD today. I sat down to watch it while it was recording and I was not overly impressed with the picture image. Then, I saw edge enhancement around Catherine Zeta-Jones when she was shown at a distance under the stage lights. So I popped in our DVD of CHICAGO and fast-forwarded it to the point the movie was playing on Starz, and then played them simultaneously so I could switch between the Cable TV and DVD inputs and compare the images. Lo and behold, the Starz "HD" broadcast was just the DVD being played - NO discernable difference at all. :confused: :mad:


I had never seen this before, because every other time I've watched Starz or HBO HD, it's DEFINITELY an HD image.
 

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Networks do not use consumer grade equipment or software (DVD's) for broadcasts. Also Starz (like most networks) plays lots of up converted SD material from time to time. You should check to see if Chicago was from an HD or SD master.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by William
Networks do not use consumer grade equipment or software (DVD's) for broadcasts. Also Starz (like most networks) plays lots of up converted SD material from time to time. You should check to see if Chicago was from an HD or SD master.
Would it still have edge-enhancement if it was not from a DVD?


Also - does such an upconverted-to-HD image give me an idea what my DVD would look like if I bought an upconverting DVD player with DVI? Or should I expect MUCH BETTER?
 

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How do you know if something is upconverted or not? Is it listed somewhere?
 

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It's only HD if it says HD by the film. Everything else is crud pan & scam or crud upconvert widescreen.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by eweiss
Would it still have edge-enhancement if it was not from a DVD?...
EE is not DVD specific. So the answer is (not seeing the Starz transfer myself) it certainly could. Just put on your EE filtering :cool: glasses. :)
 

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Quote:
How do you know if something is upconverted or not? Is it listed somewhere?
I usually check againts the web site, showtime hd uses "upconvert" and "true hd" while starz just say "hdtv" but most of the time, you definately can tell.


I tuned couple minutes of Chicago today after finished ROTR:2 towers i have it recorded last month from starz. The upconverted Chicago is not any better compare to DVD playback from my htpc. Actually worse.....The ROTR-hd is another story, can't wait for ROTK showing next month from starz.
 

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The only D-Theater tape I have that I'm truly disappointed in is Rambo: First Blood. If it's better looking than the better of the DVD's, it's marginal, and it doesn't have a DTS track either.:rolleyes: If Artisan can't do better than that, then maybe it's just as well they dropped D-VHS...?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by zeroendless
I usually check againts the web site, showtime hd uses "upconvert" and "true hd" while starz just say "hdtv" but most of the time, you definately can tell.
I disagree that you can "definitely" always tell HD from a "Good" upconvert. Proof in point where people post that a Movie looked great in HD only to be told mid-thread that it was a upconvert. A side by side viewing you may easily can tell. I would bet most people could not tell a HD from a "good" upconvert in a blind test.................Just an opinion no data to back it up.

I also feel a upconvert is as good as a reference DVD
 

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On Starz the upconverts are blatantly obvious. I have yet to bve fooled. However, on Showtime I have been fooled more than once. Some of them are amazing (Equilibrium, for example).
 

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It happens in broadcast OTA HDTV as well. The local UPN and WB and PBS broadcasters are not exactly oversupplied with material. In many cases the original live broadcast of a network program is in HD, but the later rebroadcast in the same week is a letterboxed upconvert - the local station not having the ability to record and playback in HD.


I see this with the local UPN affiliate and the weekly Star Trek: Enterprise broadcasts. The Friday broadcast is in HD, the Sunday rebroadcast is 4:3 with the 16:9 picture area letterboxed and my MyHD tuner card indicates the video mode is digital 704X480i.


In both broadcasts the network splash advertising says "Simulcast in HDTV". Of course that isn't true on Sunday. The digital rebroadcast is visibly better than the analog transmission, but it's easy to tell the superiority of the Friday HD original.


By the way, one of our local SF Bay area stations has an afternoon movie on weekdays called "DVD on TV" where they do broadcast the DVD source. They have a man/woman team of hosts and if the DVD is slightly under the time alloted, I've seen them fill in with material in the Special Features on the disk.


Gary
 

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Speaking of...


TNT-HD has gained a reputation for simply broadcasting stretched SD masters for their films.


However, Desperado was broadcast last night and, either it was a pretty good upconvert or, it was HD (gasp).


Hadn't seen it discussed at all - did anyone tune in who can confirm?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I've never seen Desperado or El Mariachi, but a couple weeks ago I was at the Corona Club (?) bar in Ciudad Acuna (just across the river from Del Rio, TX) where one or both films was shot. Does that count? :)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary McCoy
By the way, one of our local SF Bay area stations has an afternoon movie on weekdays called "DVD on TV" where they do broadcast the DVD source. They have a man/woman team of hosts and if the DVD is slightly under the time alloted, I've seen them fill in with material in the Special Features on the disk.


Gary
Are you talking about FX DVD on TV ? I been watching this myself.........nicely done for movie fans

http://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/orig...n_tv/main.html
 

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And of course there are some examples of when it's very obviously HD but the bit rate is so constrained that when the action gets high it turns into artifactious maximus and you'd be better off watching the DVD.
 

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I just rechecked The Wild Bunch film that was taped from HDNet Movies and compared to the DVD; it looks like is an up-convert because PQ is only marginally better plus also exhibits the very same image flaws the DVD contains (i.e., EE, some mosquito noise, etc.).

And to make it even worse, my copy also shows several instances of digital artifacts like blocking and drop outs, thus makes it less than ideal for "reference" archiving purposes.


It appears that version of The Wild Bunch was what WB provided Mark Cuban with, so as far as I am concerned I think WB needs to re-master it with the latest HD digital technologies in order to produce a higher PQ version (like HBO's recent airing of True Lies, a version that visually surpasses the D-Theater version, one which itself is vastly superior to the DVD transfer. Anyway, more about the four different True Lies versions existing extant to be posted in this Forum soon)...


-THTS
 

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The WILD BUNCH HD transfer was one of Warner's very first HD efforts. The DVD is unwatchable, especially on larger screens. The HD version is vastly superior, but only because the DVD is so bad.


Frank, you are one of the lucky few who has this film in HD. I'm hoping Cuban shows it again on HDNet Movies.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
The WILD BUNCH HD transfer was one of Warner's very first HD efforts. The DVD is unwatchable, especially on larger screens. The HD version is vastly superior, but only because the DVD is so bad.


Frank, you are one of the lucky few who has this film in HD. I'm hoping Cuban shows it again on HDNet Movies.
Regarding the HD taping of TWB...it is much better on tape but it could be far better looking. (Btw, do you have this one on HD tape? It doesn't seem to be the case so please PM me).


Matt, not only HDNet Movies needs to replay The Wild Bunch but 55 Days at Peking and The Wind and the Lion as well, just like MFL and Auntie Mame have been lately (the latter is a real knockout in HD; the DVD is as well).

I taped 55 Days on a JVC 420 tape the first day of showing and it's all screwed up...just like what happened with the first taping of My Fair Lady on same type of D-VHS tape (didn't realized it until too late: the movie ceased playing and it hasn't since). A second taping of MFL yielded far better results but still have to contend with blocking and dropouts. Argh! :(


Just got through re-checking Mike Todd's (Todd A-O) "Around the World in 80 Days" on DVD (WB) and am really excited about the possibility of seeing it air on the HDNet Movies channel in HD sometime in the near future.

I hope Mark Cuban gets on with the program (no pun! :) ) and begin to air big epics of the 50s and 60s with more frequency...


-THTS
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary McCoy
By the way, one of our local SF Bay area stations has an afternoon movie on weekdays called "DVD on TV" where they do broadcast the DVD source. They have a man/woman team of hosts and if the DVD is slightly under the time alloted, I've seen them fill in with material in the Special Features on the disk. Gary
Quote:
Originally posted by jones07
Are you talking about FX DVD on TV ? I been watching this myself.........nicely done for movie fans

http://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/orig...n_tv/main.html
In the case of FX, they aren't actually running a DVD - just DVD-like features. In the case of the local station, I can't be sure as I have never seen it. However, since DVD isn't even SD quality (yes, better than VHS, cable and satellite - but not broadcast quality SD) I find it hard to believe they are running an actual DVD as opposed to transfers on betacam or similar professional formats. While the content might be the same, most stations avoid using consumer formats for broadcast (mini-DV sometimes being used for news gathering and viewer camcorder footage are the few exceptions), especially when they have to pay for the rights for any format they use.
 
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