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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I can't believe how far we are behind Europe. In the UK, for example, all five of the terestrial channels broadcast ALL content at 16:9 (at a minimum - they even broadcast some content at what looks to be 2.35:1!).


Why am I still having to look a pukey grey sidebars or stretch the edges of my picture to give a full screen image?



Sorry if this has come up before. I did a search and didn't find anyone ranting about this.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwalsh /forum/post/0


I can't believe how far we are behind Europe. In the UK, for example, all five of the terestrial channels broadcast ALL content at 16:9 (at a minimum - they even broadcast some content at what looks to be 2.35:1!).


Why am I still having to look a pukey grey sidebars or stretch the edges of my picture to give a full screen image?



Sorry if this has come up before. I did a search and didn't find anyone ranting about this.

The UK is almost universally 16:9 because we didn't go HD as early as the US, and instead went from PAL composite analogue 4:3 to Digital Component 16:9 production and distribution in the late 90s, with most mainstream broadcasters (i.e. BBC, ITV, C4, Five and Sky) going pretty nearly universally 16:9 for original content by 2002-2004ish. (The exception being ITV News who are still 4:3 in production terms) Ironically - the first 16:9 outlet in the UK was BBC News 24 - which launched with 16:9 production in Nov 1997 - and was available domestically in 16:9 24/7 in Nov 1998 when the BBC digital platforms launched (prior to this News 24 was on analogue cable and BBC One analogue terrestrial overnight)


However whilst we are 16:9 SD for almost everything domestically (and PAL composite is almost universally a distant memory) - we are far from being close to HD universally, with only high-end drama, and some entertainment and documentary (and this is really only the BBC) being in HD.


Given that all European HD displays are 16:9 - and pretty much all SD displays over 21" diagonals have also been 16:9 for the last 5 years or so - I think that universal 16:9 production and broadcast is a good thing - but I'd obviously prefer that the SD 16:9 stuff was HD!
 

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Color took well over a decade to become mainstream in the US, and that didn't require parallel systems, aspect ratio change and a shutoff. By the time shutoff occurs, I think 16:9 will be the norm in the US. Networks do not want to support both SD and HD distribution and are working for a single system. CRTs will likely all but disappear, and other technologies are steadily dropping in price. OTH, there is such a huge amount of legacy 4:3 programming that it will be with us indefinitely. OAR is a good thing.
 

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ATSC supports 16:9 480i.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 /forum/post/0


The UK is almost universally 16:9 because we didn't go HD as early as the US, and instead went from PAL composite analogue 4:3 to Digital Component 16:9 production and distribution in the late 90s, with most mainstream broadcasters (i.e. BBC, ITV, C4, Five and Sky) going pretty nearly universally 16:9 for original content by 2002-2004ish. (The exception being ITV News who are still 4:3 in production terms) Ironically - the first 16:9 outlet in the UK was BBC News 24 - which launched with 16:9 production in Nov 1997 - and was available domestically in 16:9 24/7 in Nov 1998 when the BBC digital platforms launched (prior to this News 24 was on analogue cable and BBC One analogue terrestrial overnight)


However whilst we are 16:9 SD for almost everything domestically (and PAL composite is almost universally a distant memory) - we are far from being close to HD universally, with only high-end drama, and some entertainment and documentary (and this is really only the BBC) being in HD.


Given that all European HD displays are 16:9 - and pretty much all SD displays over 21" diagonals have also been 16:9 for the last 5 years or so - I think that universal 16:9 production and broadcast is a good thing - but I'd obviously prefer that the SD 16:9 stuff was HD!

I was unaware of this but it does perhaps solve a mystery I encountered the other night. I tuned into the premiere of Ricky Gervais' "Extras" season 2 on HBO HD and it was being broadcast letterboxed. I thought it was strange that a 16:9 show be broadcast that way on HBOs HD outlet. Is "Extras", which is clearly shot 16:9 not an HD show? How was it broadcast in the UK?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGigaShadow /forum/post/0


I was unaware of this but it does perhaps solve a mystery I encountered the other night. I tuned into the premiere of Ricky Gervais' "Extras" season 2 on HBO HD and it was being broadcast letterboxed. I thought it was strange that a 16:9 show be broadcast that way on HBOs HD outlet. Is "Extras", which is clearly shot 16:9 not an HD show? How was it broadcast in the UK?

Extras is shot 16:9 SD 576/50i and flickered to 576/25p in post-production to give it a "film look" (in a similar manner to the original BBC "The Office" series. The sit com elements in series 2 are left 50i, as many sit coms in the UK are shot and delivered in 50i rather than 25p, so it looks more authentic keeping this 50i. Can't remember if the "film" bits are shot on film or not.


I had initially expected it to have been shot in 1080/25p HD - as it was an HBO co-pro - but it isn't. (There was an article by the DoP in one of the industry magazines about it recently)


It was broadcast 16:9 full-height anamorphic in the UK - not letterbox.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV /forum/post/0


Not to mention we have a whole lot more channels in the US. I don't see RFD-TV going 16x9 any time soon, much less HD.

Yep - though we have a pretty large number in the UK these days - and on satellite and cable the bulk of them are still 4:3 - though often carrying 14':9 letterboxed material.


All of the main networks (those run by BBC, ITV, C4 and Five) are 16:9 pretty universally for original commissions. Sky is 16:9 on many of their channels - including Sky News and Sky One - and we get to see a lot of Sky's US imports in 16:9 as a result. There are also quite a few 16:9 home shopping networks, and a few 16:9 music channels.


However most of the other non-HD pay TV services are still 4:3 (with letterboxing when required) - the MTV networks, the Flextech UKTV channels, Discovery, Nat Geo, Hallmark etc., are all still 4:3.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That's why I was sure to point out that is was the terestrial channels I was speaking of.


One of the last things that may have originated in 4:3, and I think even that changed since Xmas because I haven't noticed it of late, were the weather segments during GMTV. There was always a noticeable jump in the picture when they switched from one to the other.


Now with the feed I get and the fact that my TV is nearly always set to stretch the picture out to 16:9, I can't really differentiate wether or not that was actually the case, but it was always the impression I got based on how the picture changed.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwalsh /forum/post/0


Why am I still having to look a pukey grey sidebars or stretch the edges of my picture to give a full screen image?

Yea my reluctance to watch 4:3 material stretch just made my HD RPTV start to show burn-in after about 3 years of use of 4:3 SD programming (I also watched a lot of HD and Widescreen DVD).


If everything was in Widescreen I would have enjoyed my TV a lot longer. Now I started to strecth my SD programming
.


I hope that will slow down the damge.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVOD /forum/post/0


ATSC supports 16:9 480i.

Tell that to the CE manufacturers...........
.


I "think" I might have seen one 16:9 SDTV set (about $399) at BB yesterday. Anyone know of any others?
 

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I was thinking of display on a HD set. I've not seen 16:9 SD implemented on an ATSC broadcast, so I have no idea what level of compatibility there is with consumer receivers.
 

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16:9 480i or p is apart of the ATSC standard and TVs have no problem with it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl /forum/post/0


Fox affiliates were broadcasting 16:9 SD before they went HD and I don't remember any ATSC receivers having a problem with it.

Last season they did a lot of their baseball games this way. The playoffs were the only time the baseball games were all HD.


Cops also appears to be SD 16:9
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk /forum/post/0


Last season they did a lot of their baseball games this way. The playoffs were the only time the baseball games were all HD.


Cops also appears to be SD 16:9

That was a production standard. The material was upconverted to 720P for network and broadcast transmission.


I knew Fox was using 16:9 480P, but I didn't know there was WS 480i. As 16:9 screens become more common, we may see digital SD channels use this aspect ratio.
 

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Those 16:9 SD shows are upconverted to 720p and are not shown in 480i or p on the digital channel. Before FOX did HD, they did 16:9 480p and there were no problems since 480p is set up for 16:9 while 480i has the option of either 4:3 or 16:9.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk /forum/post/0


Last season they did a lot of their baseball games this way. The playoffs were the only time the baseball games were all HD.


Cops also appears to be SD 16:9

But these shows are being upconverted and broadcast in 720p. The receivers are displaying 720p unlike before Fox went HD when they had been receiving 480p.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl /forum/post/0


But these shows are being upconverted and broadcast in 720p. The receivers are displaying 720p unlike before Fox went HD when they had been receiving 480p.

Either way, it isn't HD. One thing I hate about my TV is that it upconverts everything to 720p, so 4:3 programs broadcast in 480i/p get stretched and there is nothing I can do about it.
 
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