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I wouldn’t mind going back to those times, but the industry decided HDMI with HDCP was the way to go...

The other ways to send only video out are affordable and reliable. Would love the old way back lol

We’d probably use DVI for video and optical/coax for audio :)
It did have it's advantages. What I really would have loved is if plain AV switchers became the norm. Everything goes to the switcher and then it feeds the AVR and TV/Projector.

DVI has too bulky of a connector. HDMI is just an extension of DVI. They're electrically compatible. I wish the HDMI connector would have kept the second link of DVI however even if the pins wouldn't have been used at first.

But HDMI 2.1 missed an opportunity this time around. They should have went optical.
 

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It did have it's advantages. What I really would have loved is if plain AV switchers became the norm. Everything goes to the switcher and then it feeds the AVR and TV/Projector.

DVI has too bulky of a connector. HDMI is just an extension of DVI. They're electrically compatible. I wish the HDMI connector would have kept the second link of DVI however even if the pins wouldn't have been used at first.

But HDMI 2.1 missed an opportunity this time around. They should have went optical.

What about DisplayPort? That seems pretty good.

The real problem is the obstinate use of HDCP. That’s been the bane of our industry so far.. it creates problems.

I currently use a switch like you describe because my AVR can’t pass 4k60.

Also, I used to use a lumagen, which switches external to the AVR as well.


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What about DisplayPort? That seems pretty good.

The real problem is the obstinate use of HDCP. That’s been the bane of our industry so far.. it creates problems.

I currently use a switch like you describe because my AVR can’t pass 4k60.

Also, I used to use a lumagen, which switches external to the AVR as well.
DP was about 4 years too late. If they came out first then HDMI would probably not exist.

HDCP is evil and does absolutely nothing to stop people from ripping content. All it does is cause problems for everyone else.

Yeah, the switches do exist but I wish they were more prevalent. But then again there would be three devices that would need to be upgraded.
 

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So for a non-gamer like me, these neutered 2.1 AVRs will make a great buy once they are heavily discounted when the next batch of 'real' 2.1 AVRs are launched.

Maybe then I can justify a 4x00 series or higher...
 

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Yes, same for the 8500H.
Which makes a board really unappealing if you ask me.
I wonder if this is the reason why DTS:X Pro will only be available for
people that are upgrading the board. Basically to create more arguments for people to
upgrade the HDMI-board.

From what I know so far Denon is going to release two new "HDMI 2.1 AVRs" this year.
Last years models will be continued this year. As far as I know the new models will be the successors of the X4500H and X6500H. I also heard that the successor of the X6500H will still have 11 amplified channels but it will get 13.1ch processing.

I hope Yamaha will offer more HDMI 2.1 ports. Otherwise I do not know what do to :D
I really need a new AVR this year.

I recently watched an interview with the Director of Training at Sound United on the Audioholics Youtube channel. He was promoting the game console connected to the TV directly + eARC configuration for 48 Gbps devices strongly, leading me to believe that the number of 48 Gbps HDMI ports on D&M AVRs will be very limited for the near future.
 

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Another interesting for some people that understand german:
The same dealer that posted that picture will do another livestream with Roland Krüger (Head of Technical Marketing at Sound United) where they are going about HDMI 2.1. This livestream will happen at 7 PM CET.
The livestream has just finished. I gathered a few new information.

General HDMI 2.1 stuff:
- Standard passive "HDMI 2.1" max. cable length will be 3 meters (~9.8 ft).
- Fibre optic HDMI cables will become really important for lenghts longer than 3 meters (9.8 ft).
- There are still no final specs for HDMI 2.1 repeaters


Denon stuff:
- The new HDMI chip will require a heatsink (see the picture I added to the post).
- They went with only one 48 GBit/s port because:
=> price
=> shielding
- Denon will release a Denon X8500HA somewhere down the line. This AVR basically is a X8500H that ships with a pre-installed HDMI 2.1 board. (I guess DTS:X PRO will also be included). I do not think that there will be any other major improvements compared to the X8500H.
- The upgrade board for the X8500H and the AV8805 will be available between the end of 2020 and early 2021.
- New Denon AVRs will release this fall. Probably even earlier.
- Denon Germany will host a YouTube livestream next month (May 14th and May 15th). During that live stream they will show some stuff they planned for the High End convention in Munich (which has been canceled for obvious reasons). I do not know if there will be a similar livestream for other countries. But at least this gives us a time frame where we can expect new information regarding their 2020 lineup.

Besides the picture of the heatsink I also added a higher quality version of the HDMI section of their new AVRs (FYI: Monitor 1 and Monitor 2 are both 8K). The "Signal info" picture just shows us how the new Denon AVRs will show us signal information.
 

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The livestream has just finished. I gathered a few new information.

General HDMI 2.1 stuff:
- Standard passive "HDMI 2.1" max. cable length will be 3 meters (~9.8 ft).
- Fibre optic HDMI cables will become really important for lenghts longer than 3 meters (9.8 ft).
- There are still no final specs for HDMI 2.1 repeaters


Denon stuff:
- The new HDMI chip will require a heatsink (see the picture I added to the post).
- They went with only one 48 GBit/s port because:
=> price
=> shielding
- Denon will release a Denon X8500HA somewhere down the line. This AVR basically is a X8500H that ships with a pre-installed HDMI 2.1 board. (I guess DTS:X PRO will also be included). I do not think that there will be any other major improvements compared to the X8500H.
- The upgrade board for the X8500H and the AV8805 will be available between the end of 2020 and early 2021.
- New Denon AVRs will release this fall. Probably even earlier.
- Denon Germany will host a YouTube livestream next month (May 14th and May 15th). During that live stream they will show some stuff they planned for the High End convention in Munich (which has been canceled for obvious reasons). I do not know if there will be a similar livestream for other countries. But at least this gives us a time frame where we can expect new information regarding their 2020 lineup.

Besides the picture of the heatsink I also added a higher quality version of the HDMI section of their new AVRs (FYI: Monitor 1 and Monitor 2 are both 8K). The "Signal info" picture just shows us how the new Denon AVRs will show us signal information.

So a stop-gap high end AVR... sounds like a nope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I don't really care about 8k!!!
Aren't AV Receivers OEMs understand that we need an AV receiver with HDMI 2.1 for 4K?!? Why don't they release AVRs with just 4k ports but with HDMI 2.1?!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 
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I don't really care about 8k!!!
Aren't AV Receivers OEMs understand that we need an AV receiver with HDMI 2.1 for 4K?!? Why don't they release AVRs with just 4k ports but with HDMI 2.1?!
Because they're the exact same 48Gbps port for both 4K and 8K. A 4K 120Hz 4:4:4 12-bit resolution will max out the port at 48.11Gbps. That's also the same bandwidth required for the maximum uncompressed 8K resolution of 8K 60Hz 4:2:0 12-bit. Anything higher requires Display Stream Compression (DSC).
 

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After seeing the picture of the giant heat sink for 1 hdmi 2.1, my choice is very clear now.
I will buy an AVR with hdmi2.0+eARC.
Manufacturers should focus on implementing eARC, not hdmi 2.1.
 

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After seeing the picture of the giant heat sink for 1 hdmi 2.1, my choice is very clear now.
I will buy an AVR with hdmi2.0+eARC.
Manufacturers should focus on implementing eARC, not hdmi 2.1.
The heatsink is not giant lol. Do you even know how big a HDMI silicon looks like? Jeez man. :rolleyes:
 

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The livestream has just finished. I gathered a few new information.

General HDMI 2.1 stuff:
- Standard passive "HDMI 2.1" max. cable length will be 3 meters (~9.8 ft).
- Fibre optic HDMI cables will become really important for lenghts longer than 3 meters (9.8 ft).
- There are still no final specs for HDMI 2.1 repeaters


Denon stuff:
- The new HDMI chip will require a heatsink (see the picture I added to the post).
- They went with only one 48 GBit/s port because:
=> price
=> shielding
- Denon will release a Denon X8500HA somewhere down the line. This AVR basically is a X8500H that ships with a pre-installed HDMI 2.1 board. (I guess DTS:X PRO will also be included). I do not think that there will be any other major improvements compared to the X8500H.
- The upgrade board for the X8500H and the AV8805 will be available between the end of 2020 and early 2021.
- New Denon AVRs will release this fall. Probably even earlier.
- Denon Germany will host a YouTube livestream next month (May 14th and May 15th). During that live stream they will show some stuff they planned for the High End convention in Munich (which has been canceled for obvious reasons). I do not know if there will be a similar livestream for other countries. But at least this gives us a time frame where we can expect new information regarding their 2020 lineup.

Besides the picture of the heatsink I also added a higher quality version of the HDMI section of their new AVRs (FYI: Monitor 1 and Monitor 2 are both 8K). The "Signal info" picture just shows us how the new Denon AVRs will show us signal information.
Thanks for the information, that answers a lot of questions. Good to know VRR is in there too. Cable length of 10ft works for me as that's what I currently have. A bummer it's only 1 48Gbps port, did they mention or hint at whether that port will be for the other Denons coming in the fall or just the 8000 series? And when will they be adding more 48Gbps ports?
 

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So the foreseeable future is going to require people rely on a new TV purchase to obtain the flexibility needed for gaming and using just the earc feature of the AVR for sound. That's a drag.
 

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A bummer it's only 1 48Gbps port, did they mention or hint at whether that port will be for the other Denons coming in the fall or just the 8000 series?
We expect 2 new 2020 models this fall.
Probably X4600H and X6600H.
If the X8500H + AV8805 flagships have only one 2.1 input we can infer that the lower tier models have also only one 2.1 input.

And when will they be adding more 48Gbps ports?
In 2021 we expect the X8500HA that is the X8500H with the 2.1 board integrated already at the factory. So, still one 2.1 input.

In 2022 we can expect more D+M models, with more than one 2.1 inputs.

Yamaha, Onkyo & others may go on another (faster) path but the post-pandemic economy probably will not agree...
 

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So the foreseeable future is going to require people rely on a new TV purchase to obtain the flexibility needed for gaming and using just the earc feature of the AVR for sound. That's a drag.
And tvs only have 1 eARC port so this isn't a good solution even if eARC worked perfectly. Might be something for LG to consider for the X1/11 series next year, add eARC to the other ports.

We expect 2 new 2020 models this fall.
Probably X4600H and X6600H.
If the X8500H + AV8805 flagships have only one 2.1 input we can infer that the lower tier models have also only one 2.1 input.


In 2021 we expect the X8500HA that is the X8500H with the 2.1 board integrated already at the factory. So, still one 2.1 input.

In 2022 we can expect more D+M models, with more than one 2.1 inputs.

Yamaha, Onkyo & others may go on another (faster) path but the post-pandemic economy probably will not agree...
So basically to get full HDMI 2.1 functionality for next gen consoles you need to be swapping them in and out constantly, which is not optimal.
 

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And tvs only have 1 eARC port so this isn't a good solution even if eARC worked perfectly. Might be something for LG to consider for the X1/11 series next year, add eARC to the other ports.
How useful would multiple ARC/eARC ports really be?

The utility of ARC/eARC is to send Audio to an external device, how many people need to send audio to multiple external receivers?


I can see the utility of multiple ports for other aspects of HDMI 2.1 but eARC?
 

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So the foreseeable future is going to require people rely on a new TV purchase to obtain the flexibility needed for gaming and using just the earc feature of the AVR for sound.
I don't understand your point about a new TV purchase. Buying a new TV with 48Gbps ports is absolutely a requirement to being able to use 4K120 with the upcoming consoles.
 
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