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Watch this Audioholics Denon Sound United presser. It will explain away your concerns on the 40Gbps and single 2.1
It tried to explain things away. The issue is that people tend to hang onto their AVR for 10-20 years. They'll replace their console and TVs before their AVR.

I'm quite sure we'll have 12-bit panels within the next 10 years and for sure in 20. I also like to know how he knows the Xbox One X and PS5 are going to be 40Gbps maximum. And in 10 years you don't think the Xbox Two X and PS6 will not be 48Gbps? PC video cards will hit 48Gbps either at launch or not too long after.

As for the single 8K input, use eARC? Sure. But then people with TVs that have three extra 40/48Gbps ports, or one extra 40/48Gbps port and a single console, don't really need an AVR with HDMI 2.1 features at all (except for eARC). With an eARC audio extractor they don't even need eARC on the AVR.

Ironically it's the non HDMI 2.1 features that have me interested.
 

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And in 10 years you don't think the Xbox Two X and PS6 will not be 48Gbps?
Worse, new consoles come out every 7 years.
 

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@avernar

What I took from the video is there are no 12 bit panels now (Except high end JVC projectors ) and there isn’t likely to be for some time to come. They basically said Denon is following LG’s lead and that the 40Gbps number is more likely to be the number the industry adopts at large vs the 48Gbps initial target. By the time more than 40Gbps is needed the next standard won’t be just 48Gbps. It’ll probably be 144Gbps or whatever Is required for 12 bit 120Hz 8k, 3d etc.

Arguably the best TVs on the market, the 2020 LG CX 9 series OLEDs just released with 40Gbps ports. Thats the best there is, and this receiver matches it. This Denon won’t be compatible with the newest tech 10-20 years forward, it can’t be, it wasn’t meant to be. No AVR ever is. At the pricepoints it is arriving at for the tech it offers it is a winning proposition.

All other HDMI inputs offer VRR and QFT which is good for 60Hz 4K HDR. Probably sufficient for PS5? Put your Xbox Series X or PC on the 120Hz 4K HDR port?

Or see what the other companies do.
 

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What I took from the video is there are no 12 bit panels now (Except high end JVC projectors ) and there isn’t likely to be for some time to come.
Very short sighted on Denon's part. Even if a panels stay 10-bit for a while, and I really think they won't, who says they can't add temporal dithering? A 240Hz panel can do 11-bit and a 480Hz can do 12-bit.

They basically said Denon is following LG’s lead and that the 40Gbps number is more likely to be the number the industry adopts at large vs the 48Gbps initial target. By the time more than 40Gbps is needed the next standard won’t be just 48Gbps. It’ll probably be 144Gbps or whatever for 12 bit 120Hz 8k.
AVR manufacturer's should not be following TV and devices leads. They need to be ahead of the curve so that when the TV and devices are upgraded you don't bump up against the AVRs limits too soon after purchasing it.

Arguably the best TVs on the market, the LG CX 9 series OLEDs just released with 40Gbps ports. This Denon won’t be compatible with the newest tech 10-20 years forward, it can’t be, it wasn’t meant to be. No AVR ever is.
My C9, which is virtually equivalent to the CX, has 48Gbps ports. LG's justification for the CX's 40Gbps ports was they wanted to dedicate chip resources to their processing functions. Ironically, a lot of people just shut off all that crap processing.

AVRs should be compatible with all devices that meet the current standard, current and in the future. The 2020 Denon's don't.

Maybe 40Gbps will be sufficient. But people don't want to spend money on something to find out it wasn't.
 

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Worse, new consoles come out every 7 years.
Have an original Xbox One. Has seen updates to support Atmos and HDR (and pretty much every other feature except perhaps those specific HDMI 2.0b features (EditToAdd since I missed a few words) like VRR and ALLM, which the One X does). 7 year old console. I don't have a TV with VRR and don't have a VRR display to se if it has some 2.0b features - but it does see regular updates for content (practically every possible format under the sun in the Settings menu is visible -but greyed out because the TV/Reciever doesn't support the some 30 AV formats it has listed lol -- being facetious here, it isn't quite that many at all).

Unlike AVR's it seems that consoles do a much better job with feature updates.

One thing people forget about TV's as well is that firmware gets updates regularly. HDMI 2.1 is pretty much still in early stages. So they can add features (like increasing bandwidth) so long as the controller/processor can take it. Some older HDMI 2.0 TVs are getting HDMI 2.1 (if they have capable controllers).

Can't say the same for AVR's. Want features, pay $$$$ next year.
Nothing wrong with just running eARC, which is what most people recommend doing for PC/console anyway. HDMI 2.1 is supposed to do something for latency, but I'd wait for tests before you jump on buying "because I need it now".

Also almost every TV in the past 12 years has done this "features available on Port1 only" crap because they don't want to print extra traces on the PCB or whatever (it might cost them an extra $5, he said jokingly). For recievers they don't really have an excuse. As someone said - people like to keep receivers for longer.
 

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My C9, which is virtually equivalent to the CX, has 48Gbps ports.
Maybe 40Gbps will be sufficient. But people don't want to spend money on something to find out it wasn't.
Then pick one of the other HDMI 2.1 capable AVR options out to mate to your current 48Gbps C9.

Oh wait...

I kid. I get what you are saying about wishing it was 48Gbps, but the other options are barren, and its 3 years after the standard was developed!

Your C9 wont use that 48Gbps, it lacks nothing connected to this 40Gbps port right?

This is the FIRST AVR series that supports 2.1 and Denon clearly said the 40Gbps choice was based on the current market parts, need, direction, and cost. If Denon makes all options available typically at the low end of the price brackets the consumer expected then it almost forces the hand of the other competing AVR companies to follow suit with 40Gbps. Just like Phil said in the video, why spend extra money creating custom 48Gbps parts that won’t be used?

I do wish they had put 2-3 40Gbps inputs on it, but its not a deal breaker for me and the alternative may be a year or two out, or significantly more expensive.
 

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He left out the computer use case with NVIDIA’s upcoming 3000 series. With an 8k panel, 8k 4:4:4 using Display Stream Compression would be a use case for more than 40gb (unless DSC can run at 40gb).
DSC maxes out at 40Gbps for 8K. See the attached chart.

Current Samsung TVs only do DSC at 24Gbps and LG doesn't support it at all.

If the new game consoles end up being 40Gbps (which seems likely) it's also likely that the new video cards will be the same.

It's looking like there won't be any use for 48Gbps for some years.
 

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Then pick one of the other HDMI 2.1 capable AVR options out to mate to your current 48Gbps C9.

Oh wait...

I kid. I get what you are saying about wishing it was 48Gbps, but the other options are barren, and its 3 years after the standard was developed!

Your C9 wont use that 48Gbps, it lacks nothing connected to this 40Gbps port right?
You completely missed my point. The C9 has 48Gbps, which means that the CX's 40Gbps are only temporary. Next years model or the one after that can easily add them back in. If I upgrade my TV in 4-5 years I don't want to upgrade my AVR again. And we will get TVs that make use of 12-bit sooner than later.

This is the FIRST AVR series that supports 2.1 and Denon clearly said the 40Gbps choice was based on the current market parts, need, direction, and cost. If Denon makes all options available typically at the low end of the price brackets the consumer expected then it almost forces the hand of the other competing AVR companies to follow suit with 40Gbps. Just like Phil said in the video, why spend extra money creating custom 48Gbps parts that won’t be used?
As I said before, 48Gbps switch chips already exist. The C9 has one. But we'll see what the other AVR manufacturers do.

I do wish they had put 2-3 40Gbps inputs on it, but its not a deal breaker for me and the alternative may be a year or two out, or significantly more expensive.
So do I. But I think they didn't want to give up Zone 2 functionality, which is limited to HDMI 1-6 on the 2020s. The reason would be that it would need 4x2 HDMI switch chips, which would be custom, and a more complex output chip. The more 8K ports, the less that can be used for Zone 2.

I know that the first product out would have limitations, but I really wanted to see at least two 48Gbps ports. :(
 

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Did you all know that there the pre amplifier mode (till now only available in the 8500 model) is now available starting from the 3700 model? Unfortunately you can only turn off all the internal amps or let them all enabled.
What is the preamp mode good for?
What is the main difference between preout and preamp?
If I can't disable internal amps one-by-one then I can't use an external amp for my fronts only, right?
 

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What is the preamp mode good for?
What is the main difference between preout and preamp?
If I can't disable internal amps one-by-one then I can't use an external amp for my fronts only, right?
Pre-amp mode is for when you want to disable ALL of the internal amps and ONLY use external amps. Most people will not want to do this, but it is a big deal for those who do.
Pre-out are the ports that go to external amps (and also to subwoofers).
You do not need to disable internal amps in order to use external amps. So, you can certainly use an external amp for your fronts.
 
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Pre-amp mode is for when you want to disable ALL of the internal amps and ONLY use external amps. Most people will not want to do this, but it is a big deal for those who do.
Pre-out are the ports that go to external amps (and also to subwoofers).
You do not need to disable internal amps in order to use external amps. So, you can certainly use an external amp for your fronts.

what does this exactly means? Even though i used a pre amp i would still need to power some channels from the receiver, right? otherwise, why having one?
 

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I considering upgrade my x3400h to 3700h, but i have One doubt with HDMI 2.1 40Gbps ports inside the new Denon.. If in a future, i connect one device or PC at 4K HDR 120 12 Bit 4:4:4 directly on C9, and the C9 eARC to 3700h, this resolucion at 48Gbps will does work? instead of connecting this PC in the future directly to the AVR (since it doesn't support 48 GBps).

Thanks!
 

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If in a future, i connect one device or PC at 4K HDR 120 12 Bit 4:4:4 directly on C9, and the C9 eARC to 3700h, this resolucion at 48Gbps will does work?
Yes, provided that the source actually uses the whole bandwidth (48Gbps).

instead of connecting this PC in the future directly to the AVR (since it doesn't support 48 GBps).
We do not know when we will have a source that will go further than 40Gbps - maybe when 8K HFR will become a thing...
 

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another question i would like to ask since i didnt owned a receiver. Does these receivers or the previous gen include some type of equalizer so you can boost/attenuate specific frequencies?
 

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I also like to know how he knows the Xbox One X and PS5 are going to be 40Gbps maximum.
I am pretty sure that they have Dev Kits for the new consoles and
engineering samples of the new graphics cards.
Same should be the case for other companies.
 

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Yes, provided that the source actually uses the whole bandwidth (48Gbps).


We do not know when we will have a source that will go further than 40Gbps - maybe when 8K HFR will become a thing...

Thanks mate for your reply! Then i will buy the new 3700h. My 3400h not even work eARC with C9 neither.
You leave me calm. Knowing that in the future, I can have 48 Gbps if I connect the PC to C9 directly, instead of the AVR, and then C9 to 3700h trought eARC port, it is valid for me. I don't need to use AVR connections directly at all times.

Thanks again!
 

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I am pretty sure that they have Dev Kits for the new consoles and
engineering samples of the new graphics cards.
Same should be the case for other companies.

This is true.
 
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