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Only one of those choices supports HDMI 2.1.

If you want a next gen console and you want it to be switched through the AVR to your CX OLED, then the 3700 is your only option of that bunch. You could use EARC alternatively with older AVR options.
But with eARC the audio is limited by the TV. The CX will not pass-through any flavor of DTS....
 

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I wish Denon/Marantz would have gone the other way and offered TWO 8K HDMI 2.1 inputs and a single HDMI output. According to Sound United, the current HDMI 2.1 hardware could have been configured this way, but they decided to prefer two HDMI outputs. So, already by year-end this will be too few HDMI 8K inputs with Xbox Series X and PS5 both being available (and capable of using the 40Gps bandwidth). I have to believe there will be TONS more people with both consoles than those needing two HDMI outputs, especially on the 7.1 models...

I am still hoping that Yamaha goes the other way....
 

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I really doubt both those consoles will be using that 40gb bandwidth.

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They will both utilize 4K/120. So, they will exceed 18Gbps. Obviously not every game will run at those rates. Microsoft has also confirmed 8K capability (likely only for media). But the PS4 Pro and XBox One X already output at 4K/60....
 

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They will both utilize 4K/120. So, they will exceed 18Gbps. Obviously not every game will run at those rates. Microsoft has also confirmed 8K capability (likely only for media). But the PS4 Pro and XBox One X already output at 4K/60....
I will be amazed if either runs games in 4k @ 120 - the burden on the console to run at that update rate means serious compromises in the actual game content to do so. Yes, they can run at 120, but unless it is a simpler game with less post effects, simpler geometry etc they will be pushing it to achieve 4k @ 60.

The same argument can be said for 8k also - the fill rate needed for that is scary!
 

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Ok my bad I guess I am ignorant on that stuff. I didn't think VRR would get it that high. I just didn't think these consoles would be pushing more than 4k 60fps and probably still 30fps more often.

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Ok my bad I guess I am ignorant on that stuff. I didn't think VRR would get it that high. I just didn't think these consoles would be pushing more than 4k 60fps and probably still 30fps more often.
Here's the secret to understanding all of this: What the game renders at and what is sent to the TV are independent of each other.

Most consoles currently output to the TV at 60Hz (1/60th of a second or 16.67ms). A lot of games run at 30fps (1/30th of a second per frame or 33.33ms). So the console sends out each frame twice, so two 16.67ms frames because the game won't have the next frame ready for 33.33ms. One benefit of doing this is that your display lag drops in half. You see the new frame 16.67ms sooner. The other benefit is the console and TV don't have to do an HDMI resync when you switch from a 30fps game to a 60fps game. This is especially important in games where the gameplay is at 60fps but the cinematics are at 30fps.

With HDMI 2.1 we can now have the console always output at 120Hz (1/120th of a second or 8.33ms). So now for the game running at 30fp the console will output 4 frames of 8.33ms to fill the 33.33ms time it takes the game to generate a new frame. Now the display lag has gone down to 8.33ms! You can also now play 120fps, 60fps and 30fps games without a resync. Games can also now run at 120fps and do their cinematics at 60fps.

VRR just allows a game to vary its render rate. The C9 and CX have a VRR range of 120Hz to 40Hz (8.33ms to 25ms). So a game can take anywhere between 8.33ms to 25ms to generate a new frame. Let's say a game needs 12.5ms to generate a frame. If you had the output set to 60Hz (16.67ms) then the game would be sitting there for 4.17ms doing nothing. With the console set to output at 120Hz with VRR the game doesn't have to wait and do nothing because 12.5ms is in the 8.33ms to 25ms range.

But all this time the console will still be putting out a 4K 120Hz signal (40Gbps) regardless of what the game is rendering at.
 

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I will be amazed if either runs games in 4k @ 120 - the burden on the console to run at that update rate means serious compromises in the actual game content to do so. Yes, they can run at 120, but unless it is a simpler game with less post effects, simpler geometry etc they will be pushing it to achieve 4k @ 60.

The same argument can be said for 8k also - the fill rate needed for that is scary!

Dirt 5 for Xbox Series X is already confirmed to have a 120 FPS mode. If developers can do this for a launch game I’d expect to see more of this for next gen.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/06/10/inside-xbox-series-x-optimized-dirt-5/


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Dirt 5 for Xbox Series X is already confirmed to have a 120 FPS mode. If developers can do this for a launch game I’d expect to see more of this for next gen.
We also already know about Gears 5 being 120fps for multiplayer. Did a quick check and looks like Ori and the Will of the Whisps, and Orphan and the Machine will also be 4K 120fps.
 

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Here's the secret to understanding all of this: What the game renders at and what is sent to the TV are independent of each other.

Most consoles currently output to the TV at 60Hz (1/60th of a second or 16.67ms). A lot of games run at 30fps (1/30th of a second per frame or 33.33ms). So the console sends out each frame twice, so two 16.67ms frames because the game won't have the next frame ready for 33.33ms. One benefit of doing this is that your display lag drops in half. You see the new frame 16.67ms sooner. The other benefit is the console and TV don't have to do an HDMI resync when you switch from a 30fps game to a 60fps game. This is especially important in games where the gameplay is at 60fps but the cinematics are at 30fps.

With HDMI 2.1 we can now have the console always output at 120Hz (1/120th of a second or 8.33ms). So now for the game running at 30fp the console will output 4 frames of 8.33ms to fill the 33.33ms time it takes the game to generate a new frame. Now the display lag has gone down to 8.33ms! You can also now play 120fps, 60fps and 30fps games without a resync. Games can also now run at 120fps and do their cinematics at 60fps.

VRR just allows a game to vary its render rate. The C9 and CX have a VRR range of 120Hz to 40Hz (8.33ms to 25ms). So a game can take anywhere between 8.33ms to 25ms to generate a new frame. Let's say a game needs 12.5ms to generate a frame. If you had the output set to 60Hz (16.67ms) then the game would be sitting there for 4.17ms doing nothing. With the console set to output at 120Hz with VRR the game doesn't have to wait and do nothing because 12.5ms is in the 8.33ms to 25ms range.

But all this time the console will still be putting out a 4K 120Hz signal (40Gbps) regardless of what the game is rendering at.

Sorry if this was answered already. If we had Denon x3600 receiver that did not have an HDMI 2.1 input and were using a tv that did(ie. LG C9/CX), couldn't we just connect the PS5/X-Box to the tv and then eARC to the receiver? Would this get us the same audio and video benefits as connecting to a receiver with HDMI 2.1?
 

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Sorry if this was answered already. If we had Denon x3600 receiver that did not have an HDMI 2.1 input and were using a tv that did(ie. LG C9/CX), couldn't we just connect the PS5/X-Box to the tv and then eARC to the receiver? Would this get us the same audio and video benefits as connecting to a receiver with HDMI 2.1?
Yes, this is what I'm going to do. Actually, the PS4 and Xbox One X are already hooked up to my C9 so they'll just get swapped out with the PS5 and Xbox Series X.

This issue is for those people with a CX that also want to use their console as a movie player. The CX can not pass through DTS. So a AVR with at least a 40Gbps port would be necessary.
 

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Yes, this is what I'm going to do. Actually, the PS4 and Xbox One X are already hooked up to my C9 so they'll just get swapped out with the PS5 and Xbox Series X.

This issue is for those people with a CX that also want to use their console as a movie player. The CX can not pass through DTS. So a AVR with at least a 40Gbps port would be necessary.

Thanks. I plan on using the PS5 as my blu ray player as well. So video would be the same as if through HDMI 2.1? Will all other audio formats pass through eARC? Is the DTS limitation on eARC in general or limited to LG C9/CX? What would happen to the audio if using the PS5 through eARC? What would it pass through as? And what would I lose in video if I connected the PS5 to the HDMI 2.0 receiver vs the 2.1?
 

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Thanks. I plan on using the PS5 as my blu ray player as well. So video would be the same as if through HDMI 2.1? Will all other audio formats pass through eARC? Is the DTS limitation on eARC in general or limited to LG C9/CX? What would happen to the audio if using the PS5 through eARC? What would it pass through as? And what would I lose in video if I connected the PS5 to the HDMI 2.0 receiver vs the 2.1?
Video would be the same with perhaps a tiny less lag. The DTS limitation is because LG didn’t license it for the CX. Works fine on the C9.

With my C9 I have the PS4 set to LPCM 7.1 and the Xbox set to Dolby Atmos. Both work great over eARC.
 

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Video would be the same with perhaps a tiny less lag. The DTS limitation is because LG didn’t license it for the CX. Works fine on the C9.

With my C9 I have the PS4 set to LPCM 7.1 and the Xbox set to Dolby Atmos. Both work great over eARC.

this lag will be only noticable during video or into games as well? if thats true, the same problem you will have with a deticated 4k blue ray player right?
 

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this lag will be only noticable during video or into games as well? if thats true, the same problem you will have with a deticated 4k blue ray player right?
You won't notice during video as the AVR will delay the audio the same amount. Video lag is really a concern for video games.
 

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It does strike me that they may be finding a technical issue to running HDMI 2.1 48gbs, as LG dropped the 48 gbs to 40gbs for the new model. i can't work that one out...

I'll be snapping up the PS5 once it comes out, and i'm now holding out until next year to replace my TV and Denon receiver.

I would have upgraded to the x3700 or 4700 if it had full 2.1 HDMI and more than one 2.1 HDMI input.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone else offers a full 48gbs HDMI 2.1 receiver with more than one input this year...

Im also interested to see if the PS5 comes with full spec 48 gbs HDMI, or if they release a 40gbs now and next year offer a "Pro version" with full spec..
 

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It does strike me that they may be finding a technical issue to running HDMI 2.1 48gbs, as LG dropped the 48 gbs to 40gbs for the new model. i can't work that one out...
LG went from an external HDMI 2.1 chip on the C9 to a single chip solution on the CX. They just couldn’t get the new design to handle 48Gbps. Might be a heat issues as now it’s all in one chip. Or they couldn’t quite perfect the new design. Or the yield rate was poor on chips that could do the 48Gbps.

Give it a year or two and we’ll be back to having 48Gbps ports again as everyone perfects their new chips.
 

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LG went from an external HDMI 2.1 chip on the C9 to a single chip solution on the CX. They just couldn’t get the new design to handle 48Gbps. Might be a heat issues as now it’s all in one chip. Or they couldn’t quite perfect the new design. Or the yield rate was poor on chips that could do the 48Gbps.

Give it a year or two and we’ll be back to having 48Gbps ports again as everyone perfects their new chips.
I didn't realise it was an external chipset on the C9, i think you are right about the heat issues, now that they are using it all on one chip, although it wouldn't be hard to throw some thermal paste on it and a small cooling fan/heatsink.

Looking forwards to seeing what is released next year, although i can see some development time lost due to Covid 19.
 

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Video would be the same with perhaps a tiny less lag. The DTS limitation is because LG didn’t license it for the CX. Works fine on the C9.

With my C9 I have the PS4 set to LPCM 7.1 and the Xbox set to Dolby Atmos. Both work great over eARC.

Just to confirm, if you play a DTS disc on your PS4, I assume it happily converts to LPCM 7.1 and outputs to your AVR (through the TV and eARC)? So, not an issue of "silent movies", but just not passing the raw DTS bitstream to the AVR through the CX?


[Fun Fact: The first-gen PS3 Phats did this. While they could output DD5.1 and DTS bitstreams over HDMI, they would convert Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD to 7.1 PCM due to their HDMI ports not fully implementing HDMI 1.3. This was the case even when connecting the PS3 directly to the AVR. Later units (Slim and later) had the full audio bitstream over HDMI capability implemented.]
 
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