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What if I for instance have a disc with dts HD sound and other tracks are not lossless? Wouldn't I lose quality?
1. The player might be configurable so that for DTS-HD tracks it will convert them to MultiCh-PCM - no loss (but for DTS:X tracks you will lose the extra height channels/objects)
2. The player will default to a lossy DD/DTS track - you will lose quality
 

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why don't you look for a high end external 2.1 switcher (even a matrix one) that can do eARC!! I bet, HDfury and other companies will have something coming out to support this. From what I remember from CES a few years ago, the AVR companies and the TV companies, expect to handle all the Videos in the TVs and use eARC to carry the audio back to the Receiver. Makes sense to do it that way, unless you use zone video.
 

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Is there still no news from the other manufacturers other than D&M - the NAD's, Arcams, Integras of the world on their 2.1 AVR's ?
 

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Sorry, yeah, it was a reply to your previous comment. I was using my phone and didn't quite get how to add a quote so...

Anyway: I'm not sure I follow. Wouldn't an Xbox or PS5 be able to send the same DTS track to my TV or receiver as my Blu-Ray player? I'm probably going to plug the gaming console into my 8K port to begin with and use the remaining 4K ports for my Apple TV and Nvidia Shield. Until there are 8K versions of those I'll be fine anyway. Just still puzzling that the lack of DTS support on LG TVs is happening. I don't get it and it becomes a bigger issue when people start using eARC more and more. If I understand things correctly. Oh well...
Ok, this is one thing that I didn't know about eARC. I guess this DTS limitation is also applicable for the LG C9?

@Baff, looks like this is an important limitation when plugging directly to the TV.

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I see.

As for eARC and HDMI 2.1, I'm confused. All "official" specs say that eARC is supported through HDMI 2.1. So new cables and new ports. So how do current gen AVR's and soundbars (with only HDMI 2.0b ports) support eARC? They'd be limited by 18Gbps. Can 18Gbps accommodate all lossless high quality sound formats?

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As for eARC and HDMI 2.1, I'm confused. All "official" specs say that eARC is supported through HDMI 2.1. So new cables and new ports. So how do current gen AVR's and soundbars (with only HDMI 2.0b ports) support eARC? They'd be limited by 18Gbps. Can 18Gbps accommodate all lossless high quality sound formats?
HDMI 2.1 is a grab bag of features. Manufacturers can choose to implement which ever ones they want.

The main feature, which most people think of as HDMI 2.1, is FRL (Fixed Rate Link) which can run at 9Gbps and 18Gbps using 3 lanes and 24Gbps, 32Gbps, 40Gbps and 48Gbps using 4 lanes. The only features that require FRL are the new resolutions and refresh rates. None of the other features require it.

VRR can run over anything, both the old TMDS signaling and the new FRL signalling. So the port and cable don't matter. QFT and QMS are just slight variations of VRR. ALLM is just a flag in data stream and also doesn't need anything special.

eARC does not use the TMDS/FRL wires. It uses the the wires that were supposed to be for Ethernet. So any cable that say "with Ethernet" on it will work. All it takes to add eARC to a product is to include a Sil9437 chip, run the ARC/eARC lines to it from the connector and feed its digital audio output to the DSP. For a source device they'd use a Sil9438 instead.
 

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HDMI 2.1 is a grab bag of features. Manufacturers can choose to implement which ever ones they want.

The main feature, which most people think of as HDMI 2.1, is FRL (Fixed Rate Link) which can run at 9Gbps and 18Gbps using 3 lanes and 24Gbps, 32Gbps, 40Gbps and 48Gbps using 4 lanes. The only features that require FRL are the new resolutions and refresh rates. None of the other features require it.

VRR can run over anything, both the old TMDS signaling and the new FRL signalling. So the port and cable don't matter. QFT and QMS are just slight variations of VRR. ALLM is just a flag in data stream and also doesn't need anything special.

eARC does not use the TMDS/FRL wires. It uses the the wires that were supposed to be for Ethernet. So any cable that say "with Ethernet" on it will work. All it takes to add eARC to a product is to include a Sil9437 chip, run the ARC/eARC lines to it from the connector and feed its digital audio output to the DSP. For a source device they'd use a Sil9438 instead.
Ok, thanks for the detailed explanation.

So are you saying:

1. VRR/QFT/QMS/ALLM don't really need HDMI 2.1 and can technically run on older HDMI 2.0b connections (AVR) but the manufacturer choose not to support and chose to release the future exclusively for their HDMI 2.1 AVR's?

2. eARC does not depend if it's HDMI 2.0b or 2.1, as long as the HDMI cable you're using is with Ethernet and both sides support eARC then all should be good?

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1. VRR/QFT/QMS/ALLM don't really need HDMI 2.1 and can technically run on older HDMI 2.0b connections (AVR) but the manufacturer choose not to support and chose to release the future exclusively for their HDMI 2.1 AVR's?

2. eARC does not depend if it's HDMI 2.0b or 2.1, as long as the HDMI cable you're using is with Ethernet and both sides support eARC then all should be good?
1. If the chip in the device wasn't designed for VRR/QFT/QMS then they can't add it via firmware. You have to remember that most AVRs use HDMI chips that were designed several years before HDMI 2.1 started being developed.

2. Yes.
 

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1. If the chip in the device wasn't designed for VRR/QFT/QMS then they can't add it via firmware. You have to remember that most AVRs use HDMI chips that were designed several years before HDMI 2.1 started being developed.

2. Yes.
Ok, that makes sense. Thanks!

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1. VRR/QFT/QMS/ALLM don't really need HDMI 2.1 and can technically run on older HDMI 2.0b connections (AVR) but the manufacturer choose not to support and chose to release the future exclusively for their HDMI 2.1 AVR's?
These features work on all of the 2020 Denon HDMI ports, though some of the features can sometimes work better on the faster ports. The main difference between the ports is that some are max 18Gbps and some are max 40Gbps, which is all about video quality. Even the highest audio quality uses only a small fraction of that bandwidth.
 

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Even the highest audio quality uses only a small fraction of that bandwidth.
Yes, it uses such as small fraction that they can encode it in the horizontal and vertical blanking intervals and essentially get audio for free (no extra bandwidth than what the video is taking up).
 

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There was hope that Yamaha would, in fact they had an official picture showing the front of their re-designed models. Not sure if COVID delayed their plans or the publics reaction to the new design delayed their plans. Hopefully someone else has knowledge on it. No word from Onkyo or Pioneer, so expect 2021 there.
 

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Is there any hope of anyone other than Denon/Marantz release HDMI 2.1 AVRs this year?
Yamaha will deliver their HDMI 2.1 AVRs in October/November. Also I was told that certain models will have more than one HDMI 2.1 ports, unlike the Denon/Marantz models with only one...

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
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