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There should be more "Pro" Reviews for ID subwoofer companies

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Why is it, that companies like eD and especially Epik, do not get reviewed by online audio publications? I really don't understand it. Even the AV123 MFW-15 didn't garner a pro review (that I could find).


Edit: Submersive too!


What do you guys think, would you like to see these ID brands be more professionally reviewed?
 

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I voted no for the simple reason that subwoofers are so very room and placement dependent. Reading/hearing someone else's review really doesn't provide me with any more information that I can use. Looking at the different ID subwoofer offerings, there's not a whole lot of differences in their construction outside of different driver sizes, port styles, amps used, etc. There are no issues like crossovers and cabinet design that really can affect (reproducibly) audio issues like in a standard speaker that covers a wider range, and aren't quite as dependent on placement.


I think they would simply be too difficult to review credibly as a professional, due to the setup and placement variations, as well as differing subjective responses to subwoofers.


But, following my logic, I think it would be difficult to review amplifiers as well, and there are plenty of those out there.


So, in the end, I guess I wouldn't mind seeing more reviews to let others know about ID companies. It really goes to show what professional reviews are primarily about; advertising revenue. And ID companies tend not to advertise based on their distribution style, so ID companies and professional reviews are almost diametrically opposed.


Not sure if everything I said made sense...the hour change last night killed me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by combos99 /forum/post/18311928


Why is it, that companies like eD and especially Epik, do not get reviewed by online audio publications? I really don't understand it. Even the AV123 MFW-15 didn't garner a pro review (that I could find).


Edit: Submersive too!


What do you guys think, would you like to see these ID brands be more professionally reviewed?

Some of these "pro" reviews are very full of audiophile-friendly terms that don't carry much weight. Honestly, anyone worthy of writing a sold mathematically grounded review is probably working for an audio company. If you don't want that, then its not really a pro review, its just an opinion and we got plenty of em here.


But i agree, a data base for such relative measurements, a lot like what Ilkka started, would be a great thing to continue on - such a challenge is neither cheep nor easy to do correctly.
 

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What kind of pro reviews do you like ?

All of them I see are pretty much just a glowing advertisement disguised as a review.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by combos99 /forum/post/18311928


Why is it, that companies like eD and especially Epik, do not get reviewed by online audio publications? I really don't understand it. Even the AV123 MFW-15 didn't garner a pro review (that I could find).


Edit: Submersive too!


What do you guys think, would you like to see these ID brands be more professionally reviewed?

Actually ED gets reviewed a number of times over at audioholics.


But I agree with the others. It's nice to see a professional "review" but I'd take hundreds of opinions here in AVS as my main "review" any day. Real users like me and you and very little bs. Well, a little bs but you get my gist.
 

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Yes, and among all of the frequent subjective reviews done, when was the last time you saw a bad subwoofer review??!?!



Every sub is practically the best they have ever experienced.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 /forum/post/18313522


Yes, and among all of the frequent subjective reviews done, when was the last time you saw a bad subwoofer review??!?!



Every sub is practically the best they have ever experienced.

Agreed. Basing a subwoofer purchase off of a review these days is useless. Very few useful reviews with measurements these days. Secrets is the only one left I can think of that shows measurements, and typically only when JEJ reviews them. Even then it's difficult to ascertain true subwoofer performance given how the measurements are done and what is provided. But it's much better than nothing!
 

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Pro reviews are useless actually since subjectivity is useless. Its about time this hobby stopped hiding behind subjectivity used as fact.


What we need are just independant measurements!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by combos99 /forum/post/18311928


Why is it, that companies like eD and especially Epik, do not get reviewed by online audio publications? I really don't understand it. Even the AV123 MFW-15 didn't garner a pro review (that I could find).


Edit: Submersive too!


What do you guys think, would you like to see these ID brands be more professionally reviewed?

Its all marketing, ID companies generally have lower margins and less mareting $$$. In the end the product itself is less $$$ because of that fact.


No one that has knowledge about subwoofers, subwoofer designs really bother with subjective rags any more
 

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I would like to see more "pro" reviews of ID subwoofers as long as it had objective measurements associated with it. Back in the day, I loved reading Ed Mullen's subwoofer reviews since it incorporated both subjective and objective elements.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/0


What we need are just independant measurements!!

Independent measurements don't describe how a subwoofer sounds !!!!!! I want to know whether it's mushy or has texture !!! Or if it's lush....in the bass !! Measurements won't show if a subwoofer has soul !!!! I want a soulful sub !! Measurements don't show that !!!!!


Heavens to Betsy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Regards,
 

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lmao
 

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I found these reviews to be helpful because they give detailed information about sound level at different frequencies. It would be helpful if more individuals could give REW curves or at least some output levels at various frequencies in their listening environment.


A subjective review can be helpful in the sense that someone has owned the Premier Acoustics PA-120 or BIC F12 and then upgraded to the Hsu STF-2 or eD A2-300 which they claim is better (and confirmed by a few other individuals who own both or been able to do side-by-side comparisons).


These two subwoofers are quite often referred to favorably in various threads on this forum.


http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...er-system.html


The L8400P subwoofer's bass limits were measured with it set to maximum bandwidth and placed in the optimal corner of a 7,500-cubic-foot room.

In a smaller room users can expect 2 to 3 Hz deeper extension and up to 3 dB higher sound-pressure level (SPL).

The L8400P had 109 to 112 dB SPL capability from 50 to 62 Hz at 2 meters (the optimal seating distance from a subwoofer). But output fell at nearly

16 dB per octave below 50 Hz. And although it had useful response up to 145 Hz when the LFE input was used, upper-frequency bandwidth was more

limited with the Normal inputs selected than the dial markings or specifications suggest. There was also a moderate (-4-dB) crossover/level-control

interaction over the full range of the crossover control as the selected frequency was lowered.


http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-4-2005.html
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwinkler /forum/post/18314256


I found these reviews to be helpful because they give detailed information about sound level at different frequencies. It would be helpful if more individuals could give REW curves or at least some output levels at various frequencies in their listening environment.


A subjective review can be helpful in the sense that someone has owned the Premier Acoustics PA-120 or BIC F12 and then upgraded to the Hsu STF-2 or eD A2-300 which they claim is better (and confirmed by a few other individuals who own both or been able to do side-by-side comparisons).


These two subwoofers are quite often referred to favorably in various threads on this forum.


http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...er-system.html


The L8400P subwoofer's bass limits were measured with it set to maximum bandwidth and placed in the optimal corner of a 7,500-cubic-foot room.

In a smaller room users can expect 2 to 3 Hz deeper extension and up to 3 dB higher sound-pressure level (SPL).

The L8400P had 109 to 112 dB SPL capability from 50 to 62 Hz at 2 meters (the optimal seating distance from a subwoofer). But output fell at nearly

16 dB per octave below 50 Hz. And although it had useful response up to 145 Hz when the LFE input was used, upper-frequency bandwidth was more

limited with the Normal inputs selected than the dial markings or specifications suggest. There was also a moderate (-4-dB) crossover/level-control

interaction over the full range of the crossover control as the selected frequency was lowered.


http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-4-2005.html

Of course proper measurements would tell you everything important in those reviews.


I can see where the professional writer can make it all easy to understand.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten /forum/post/18313934


Independent measurements don't describe how a subwoofer sounds !!!!!! I want to know whether it's mushy or has texture !!! Or if it's lush....in the bass !! Measurements won't show if a subwoofer has soul !!!! I want a soulful sub !! Measurements don't show that !!!!!

No, but data can be coupled with anecdotal evidence to form an overall picture...which is how they are supposed to be done.


If I had to have one OR the other, I will take the measured data over the subjective review.
 

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I love any kind of subwoofer review!!! I love to read any type of audio equipment review! But speakers and subwoofers are my favorite, followed by receivers and bluray player reviews. Nothing like getting a magazine in the mail with a subwoofer shootout!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/18313639


Pro reviews are useless actually since subjectivity is useless. Its about time this hobby stopped hiding behind subjectivity used as fact.


What we need are just independant measurements!!

Well, I can live with all the reviews done with rose colored glasses on, so long as they give me the measurements at the end of the review like Stereophile does.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 /forum/post/0


No, but data can be coupled with anecdotal evidence to form an overall picture...which is how they are supposed to be done.

But a 'soulful' sub can't be measured. You can't measure 'soul'. Can you ? You have to hear it for yourself. Measurements can show you the door, but you'rrrrree the one that has to walk through it, I mean, you must arrive at that conclusion for yourself !!!!


Regards,
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten /forum/post/18314541


But a 'soulful' sub can't be measured. You can't measure 'soul'. Can you ? You have to hear it for yourself. Measurements can show you the door, but you'rrrrree the one that has to walk through it, I mean, you must arrive at that conclusion for yourself !!!!


Regards,

What he said! No review is complete without actually auditioning the equipment yourself. However it does make for some great reading material!!! The sticking point is people like my dad would never have bought an ID subwoofer, I had to literally grab his credit card and just order it for him. Lucky for me (us) the HSU sub sounded excellent or I would be dealing with a grumpy old man and shipping it back. Thanks to this sites reviews and others the right decision was made. In this case my dad reading a review on this sub in a magazine would have made him feel more comfortable with placing an order. I myself don't like to buy without hearing or seeing it in action.
 
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