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Where is my LFE ??

4745 Views 27 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  cosymoon
Now, I have som big time trouble making my mind bent in the right heading, guess my old brain is stuck in rural old fashion thoughts...


My old and now trashed Marantz 5006: An impressive LFE. That boomy curtain curling teenage bass, that really rattled my svs subs. The rest, a lame, compressed sound somwhat touchin high vocals, but really dull. Thats with dynamic voulume off.


My shiny new Yamaha 2030. Aaaaah! What a soundstage! Everything is there, from the high pitch lovely soubrette down to the lively double bass that really is dancing in front of me!

The big time difference is the enourmous range, the dynamics, the sense of beeing in the movie, beeing in the opera hall. A sense i never got on Marantz.


But I cannot get the LFE right. I have a guilty pleasure of them tenage movies, like rise of cobra, thor, avengers, ironman, superman etc.

So I should really like them low low pitched electronic sound effects to shine, cannot understand why I cannot get anything near the, noisy boomy LFE as marantz ;-(

Both my fronts are set at SMALL and 60 hz cutoff. The Ypao is run several times in minute detail, Seven PSB speakers, T6 image front. 2 of SVS 12" subs.
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You seem to be confusing LFE with "subwoofer output". Keeping the concepts separate might help in figuring out what's actually going wrong.

LFE is a separate Low Frequency Effects audio channel which is included on most movie video discs. It's the.1 part of a 5.1 surround-sound soundtrack. The LFE channel provides most of the powerful bass effects of action movies.

When the LFE channel is sent from the player to a receiver which has a subwoofer connected to it, the LFE channel is always sent only to the subwoofer output.

If you have bass management enabled (i.e. when you have speakers set to Small), then frequencies below the crossover frequency are also sent to the subwoofer output. This is in addition to any LFE audio.

A (mis)feature in most video disc players is that if you manually configure them to output only a stereo signal, then they do not include the LFE channel in the stereo audio output.


Exactly what model of disc player do you have?

Different models use different names for similar settings.

What audio connections are you using from the disc player to the receiver?

If you're using a stereo (red/white) analog connection then you are unlikely to hear any LFE audio.

How are the digital audio outputs your disc player configured?

If you want to hear the LFE channel, you need to make sure that they're configured for full surround-sound.
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Ouch, uffda.

You are misunderstanding my postings completely Sir.

That means I have a major problem, not being able to explain my problem in English. Thats too bad.

Let me try once more

1) I am talking of that dot 1 chennel, or the dot 2 in my 7.2 setup. The LFE channel, Nothing else!

2) I was using a Marantz SR 5006. That one gave me a huge LFE, almost too much, and certainly not nice.

3) Now, I own a Yamaha RX-a2030.

4) The setup is identical to my previous Marantz

5) Single strand RCA cable from EACH of my 12 " SVS subs into subwoofer preout 1 and 2 jack -- just as Marantz

6) Ypao several times

7) Unlike marantz, no LFE worth mentioning on my new Yamaha.

I dont know if this was any clearer. I know I will eventually find the solution my self sometimes in the future.

Just was hoping for some advice from any one who have made the same mistake on their first run with a new receiver, thats all.
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So if I understand correctly you are getting sound out of the subwoofers, just not near as much as you would like and not as much as your Marantz put out. Is that correct? If so the following may help.

I've never had a Yamaha so I've never used YPAO, but I've been using Audyssey room correction for about 4 years now. What is most likely happening is YPAO is putting out as much bass as it thinks you need. Obviously you are wanting more. To remedy this just go into the channel level adjustments and bump up the subwoofer level until it sounds how you like it. There will probably be a little trial and error but it shouldn't take long to get it right. Audyssey does the same thing. Many people think the subwoofer output after Audyssey calibration is too low so they go in and bump it up 2-4db. I normally bump mine up 3db.

One other possible culprit... You didn't mention it, but do your SVS subs have an EQ setup program? If so you should always run that program prior to running YPAO or any other room correction software.
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Adjust the subwoofer trim value in the receiver. See pages 101 & 102 of the 3030/2030 owner's manual.

Although you keep writing LFE I get the distinct impression you're talking about the receiver's subwoofer output. "5.1" normally is used to describe the audio soundtrack that's on the disc, but often is used to describe a receiver's amplification capability. I have the distinct impression you're doing the latter.

If that's what you mean, I suspect that the receiver's calibration software might be doing the wrong thing to your subwoofer volume. Whether the receiver is defective or working as designed, I can't be sure. As a workaround, though, you can either turn up the gain knobs on the subwoofers or you can adjust the subwoofer trim value in the receiver. Adjusting it in the receiver is more accurate. See pages 101 & 102 of the 3030/2030 owner's manual.
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Mea culpa, I havent learnt my Yamaha yet, by no means, so sorry. At least I was able to properly define my problem, and you did indeed got my point.

There is a button on the remote. Its called option. Its on the right side. I havent seen this one, never used. So stupid of me, now I am beginng to understand..

Let me re run Ypao and then do some adjustments in this option button. Will return with a status report :)

EQ setup on my subs? I really dont know. Need to confer with the manual or website.
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Option works, but check one more subwoofer setting. On the remote select

on screen/setup/manual setup/level. Above the subwoofer what db number does it read?

Originally Posted by dryasanne  /t/1518520/where-is-my-lfe#post_24381627

- 9. Minus nine dB.
That is your problem. Turn up the subwoofer amp gain knob and rerun the mic setup until it reads zero db

on the subwoofer. Then you can start playing with all the tone and trim functions you were using.
Dont get it :)

Why do ypao measure and store minus nine in my setup then?

I tried to turn it back up to minus 2 and got back some of my lfe,

but I really should like ypao to fix the basic measurments, before I apply any kind of perfume....

Originally Posted by dryasanne  /t/1518520/where-is-my-lfe#post_24383211

Dont get it :)

Why do ypao measure and store minus nine in my setup then?

I tried to turn it back up to minus 2 and got back some of my lfe,

but I really should like ypao to fix the basic measurments, before I apply any kind of perfume....
That setting is only matching the subwoofer amp to the internal amps. Adjust the subwoofer amp volume

until it reads zero in the ypao. After that never touch the subwoofer amp knob again. You certainly can

adjust the subwoofer volume under manual speaker level all you want after that.

In fact that is the best place to set the global volume matching of the subwoofer. When using test tone all

speakers should sound/read the same decibel level at the main listening position. If you want the low bass

frequencies higher than the mid and highs, this is the best place to adjust. Once you start switching between

different input sources like tv, movies or music then the option button and subwoofer trim pretty much do the

same thing, but is easier to get to. I set the setup/speaker/auto setup/multi position setting to no or only one

reading until the subwoofer amp is adjusted to the proper level, then change it back to multi position.

Depending on the type of source the soundfield options in the movie, music surround decode, straight and

pure direct modes can vary the amount of bass. Setting all speakers to small is critical to bass control also.

But first adjust the subwoofer amp to the proper level and then leave it alone.

I have a receiver with audyssey xt32 and the subwoofer amp adjustment is easier. It plays a subwoofer test

tone and reads the db level. It is mad (red) until the db level is close to 75db. When I swap out the receiver to

the Yamaha 773 the subwoofer amp matches perfectly and reads -0.0db. Not as simple as xt32, but lot cheaper.

Once ypao is set properly if you want more bass adjust the subwoofer level above zero, not below zero. You could

also try a different crossover setting. Unfortunately 70db is not available and going from 80 to 60 is a big jump.
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Ok, thank you. It is beginning to be much clearer now.

Nb. I hav two subs. Two of svs 12". What difference would this make?

Originally Posted by dryasanne  /t/1518520/where-is-my-lfe#post_24383343

Ok, thank you. It is beginning to be much clearer now.

Nb. I hav two subs. Two of svs 12". What difference would this make?
Two 12" sv sound subs? Darn! I only have one. A very good one at that. PB12+. Good stuff eh?

This is what I would do. My subwoofer has a display. Set both subs to the same level. Either on the display

or just by the line on the sub amp knob if no display. Internally that receiver only sees one subwoofer for eq purposes.

The 2020/2030 level yamaha and above do treat dual subwoofers separately, but not the 773.

You could turn one subwoofer off and verify the sound level at listening position with a sound meter, then turn

the other sub on and do the same, but in the end have both on when setting the final sub amp level.

My single subwoofer amp is set to -18db on the svs display. Two subs should end up slightly lower depending

on the model and room size etc. Jusy go by the receiver reading.
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Good stuff yepp!

I have indeed two, but no fancy displays on either.

One SVS PB12-NSD 400 watt DSP (was sold at $ 600, now discont)

one SVS PC12-NSD 400 watt DSP (still shipping at $ 749)

So I am just at entry level you see, cannot afford any higher :)

What I really really need to do - some time - is get these two properly :

a) located ( they are now in a corner in my livingroom, the left and right corner on the other wall of where my front speakers and yamaha sits)

b) tuned, calibrated, -- had hoped Yamaha 2030 would fix this, but now I see this aint that simple ...

The problem was my Marantz 5006, it gave me that floor rumbling, tiresome, rumbling, muddy LFE.

I already now can hear my brand new Yamaha 2030 indeed gives a LFE that is defined, dry, enjoyable, dont know what it is in English, but that bass and LFE that SVS sound is talking about in their ads, which i yet havent heard properly by any of my former cheap receivers....
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I know your english isn't the best and that's fine... But just to clarify, you keep using LFE, LFE is NOT what you really mean. What you mean IS BASS. LFE is only one portion of the bass. I know newer receivers with better EQ software can make a big difference in the sound. But if your SVS subs sounded muddy with the Marantz then something was not setup or calibrated properly. Cuz I don't think I've ever heard anyone call an SVS sub muddy.
I forgot you have the 2030. So it should test/adjust each subwoofer separate. I have never

used a receiver so fancy, so not sure about any more details besides the basics I mentioned.
Its all about tomato soup in London. And a stout. In that english pub on Southbank. At an age of 54, in that pub, I suddenly got shocked. This IS life, this is Europe, here I can live, here my answers will get answered. And so sorrry, why didnt I learn proper english at school?

This avsforum is a part of my living life, being interested in them pictures, mostly made in California, there is no help getting in that viking language of norsk. So please excuse me, please let me be enriched by your vast knowledge.

Part of my bad competance, is that believ that streaming hdx from Vudu is nice. It is not, not at all. I rented Enders Game in hdx last night from Vudu. Ooh so terrible my equipment sounded, no bass, no lfe at all, just muddy and low witheld vocals. I couldnt understand what was wrong.

So, I put on the old bluray Attack of the clones in my Pana 500 blu player. A vastly different experience. Everything sounded high end, som heart rattling bass and them vocals of Padme Amidala, was soo nice, lovely, clear and her voice waas strong and clear.

I need more of that tomato soup I reckon, on my way to Milan now, will be a new eyeopener for sure.

Tonight, I will indeed play a bluray, guess I will have a look at "into the darkness" again, for the fifth ttime, havent heard that Star trek movie on my 2030, and certainly not by my Benq 1070. Do have some lfe I guess??
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Not that it matters, but are you saying you are from Norway? I studied your subwoofers and it

looks like they both have the same 400 watt class d amp? Make sure phase knob is at zero, and

especially make sure low pass knob is turned up all the way. That will allow the 2030 (got it right

this time) does all the bass eq. LFE is different, but your sub amp doesn't have a separate input

for that. Either the red or white rca input works.

Now you are saying the quality of the input source is the problem. That certainly can make a huge

difference. Most stuff downloaded from the internet is compressed and is lower quality. Especially

compared to newer movies released on bluray etc. Still the initial adjustment of the subwoofer is

important. Minus 9 (-9) was way too low. It should never drift that far from zero (-0).

From the Yamaha 2030 manual page 118 and 119. Your receiver does have a few unique subwoofer

settings that lower models don't have. SWFR layout should probably be set to left + right, but you have 2

other options to try if you want depending on positioning in the room. And your receiver does measure

each subwoofer amp gain separately so that should be easy. Your 2 subs cost about the same as 1 of

mine ($1,400) and the combined power (400watt x 2) is equal to mine (800 x 1). That should provide

some decent clean bass from bluray and cd. Plenty of custom adjustments available with that very

nice receiver.
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Yepp, Norsk, Norwegian. Regarding that tomato soup, that refers to me having way too many factors influencing the total outcome. Read-- to many gadgets......

Besides this lfe thingie, i am also trying to break a stallion. The Benq pj of mine, it is said yellow hue should be 64, in my experience, it cannot be higher than 54.

Thats one part of the horse taming. Then I have a Darbee Dablet, also giving some concerns, why do I get so perfect when using Full Pop, when I am adviced not to?

This Star Trek Into the darkness I am watching now, is so utterly fantastic when using these settings!

So my missing lfe is only a small part of this enormous puzzle. I will indeed try you advice on my subs. Then try to adjust my Yamaha. As it is tonight, there is a lot of massive bass,

but no lfe worth mentioning, which it was on my Marantz,everything else is perfect, as my Darbee settings gives me a picture on par with a kuro plasma tv (well ... almost).
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Originally Posted by kikkenit2  /t/1518520/where-is-my-lfe#post_24385475

Not that it matters, but are you saying you are from Norway? I studied your subwoofers and it

looks like they both have the same 400 watt class d amp? Make sure phase knob is at zero, and

especially make sure low pass knob is turned up all the way. That will allow the 2030 (got it right

this time) does all the bass eq. LFE is different, but your sub amp doesn't have a separate input

for that. Either the red or white rca input works

The red and white line in inputs are the LFE input. Ideally you should use a Y splitter so you can connect to both red and white. Most subwoofer cables come with them. Though I don't know if there are any consequences in just using one of the red or white inputs.
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